Why does the ban appeal process exist......

[UKCATSFAN 2]

if you spend your entire ban waiting to appeal your ban??? I have literally been waiting in ban appeal ALL day to show my evidence. I have been more than patient waiting on the mod/admin to show my evidence. I think they need to make a better effort to follow up on an appeal. Just doesn't make since for someone to sit in TS3 ALL DAY long and still not be able to present your side of the story. Very frustrating as a player. Almost feels disrespectful also. I have played on this server, donated in the past, yet cant even get someone to talk to me for a couple mins about a ban. Extremely frustrating!!

 

played on this server almost daily for 2 years

[GregoV1 979]

Once you put in a ban appeal the staff member has 24 hours to respond. If he doesn't you can go to a higher ranking staff member and talk about the ban with them. Sooooooo yeah

[nothatchbacksaltbcimbanned 73]

admins are busy men the ban appeal process exists in my opinion for 14d and perms really no point in appealing a 3 or 5 day

[UKCATSFAN 2]

That's still too long bro. You really expect people to just sit in TS for 24 hours just waiting??? Soooooo, yeah

 

yes, there is a point to appealing a 3-5 day when you didn't do anything wrong. 

I get admins are busy, I completely get it but when you have sat all day, it gets a bit frustrating

 

7 minutes ago, Grego said:

Once you put in a ban appeal the staff member has 24 hours to respond. If he doesn't you can go to a higher ranking staff member and talk about the ban with them. Sooooooo yeah

and how do you go to a higher when nobody will even jump in Ban Appeal to talk to you??

[GregoV1 979]

7 minutes ago, UKCATSFAN said:

and how do you go to a higher when nobody will even jump in Ban Appeal to talk to you??

 

Maybe you should contact a higher ranking staff member then 

[UKCATSFAN 2]

I've tried my dude!! 

[GregoV1 979]

Just now, UKCATSFAN said:

I've tried my dude!! 

Clearly not... "how do you go to a higher when nobody will even jump in Ban Appeal to talk to you??"

[UKCATSFAN 2]

ok, I'm not going to argue with you. It seems like that is your goal. But I've messaged other admins/ mods and haven't gotten any results. That's why I asked the question. What is an effective way to do so?? Because I haven't had any luck myself

[GregoV1 979]

1 minute ago, UKCATSFAN said:

ok, I'm not going to argue with you. It seems like that is your goal. But I've messaged other admins/ mods and haven't gotten any results.

 

Clearly not 

[UKCATSFAN 2]

just move along my dude, you're obviously not here to help. troll elsewhere

[Guest Excision]

It’s stupid how one staff member can ban u but in most cases only that staff member can unban you, so u can present ur case to a different staff member and they can agree that u did nothing wrong but will still make u wait until the banning staff member logs on so u can talk to them.

[UKCATSFAN 2]

I don't know if you're just trolling me or if you're trying to help. I could use some help. I'm just frustrated and not sure what I'm doing wrong. Not trying to be an ass bro

 

Grego

 

1 minute ago, Excision said:

It’s stupid how one staff member can ban u but in most cases only that staff member can unban you, so u can present ur case to a different staff member and they can agree that u did nothing wrong but will still make u wait until the banning staff member logs on so u can talk to them.

Exactly! And for whatever reason, that staff member wont jump into TS. He has been on MULTIPLE times throughout the day, both TS and the website, yet wont jump on in Ban Appeal to talk about it. Can't understand it.

[GregoV1 979]

8 minutes ago, UKCATSFAN said:

I don't know if you're just trolling me or if you're trying to help. I could use some help. I'm just frustrated and not sure what I'm doing wrong. Not trying to be an ass bro

 

Grego

 

I'm trying to help you but you're not listening to me so I'm turning into a troll.

[UKCATSFAN 2]

Just now, Grego said:

I'm trying to help you but you're not listening to me so I'm turning into a troll.

 

 

Nah bro!! Im sorry! It just took me a minute to realize! Its just been a long day! After I read it again, I realized and tried to delete. LOL! 

 

For real, my bad, I see your trying to help now. It just took my dumbass slow brain a min to register

 

[eggmasta 291]

14 minutes ago, UKCATSFAN said:

if you spend your entire ban waiting to appeal your ban??? I have literally been waiting in ban appeal ALL day to show my evidence. I have been more than patient waiting on the mod/admin to show my evidence. I think they need to make a better effort to follow up on an appeal. Just doesn't make since for someone to sit in TS3 ALL DAY long and still not be able to present your side of the story. Very frustrating as a player. Almost feels disrespectful also. I have played on this server, donated in the past, yet cant even get someone to talk to me for a couple mins about a ban. Extremely frustrating!!

 

played on this server almost daily for 2 years

Sorry that you haven't had a great experience with our appeal system, personally I will at least try to check for appeals assigned to me a few times a day. However, for most staff, Olympus is not the top priority in their lives and schedules can fluctuate, so response time will always be different.

Appeals for shorter bans can be tricky to resolve during the ban sometimes (dependent on when the appeal is submitted, time zones, and as I said earlier with schedules of both the staff member and player). However, that being said, it is still worth it in my opinion to appeal, even if it just means that your next ban won't be longer than it can be. On another note, the appeal system is certainly geared more towards longer bans. Also, staff members are easier to communicate with over the ticket system for the most part, since we don't need to be at our computer to respond to support tickets.

As for your appeal specifically, your last response was 3 hours ago and that was after you replied 6 hours after his response, so that's not really a ridiculous wait time in my opinion. And as I stated earlier, staff aren't always available on TS on demand.

3 minutes ago, Excision said:

It’s stupid how one staff member can ban u but in most cases only that staff member can unban you, so u can present ur case to a different staff member and they can agree that u did nothing wrong but will still make u wait until the banning staff member logs on so u can talk to them.

Unless it's blatantly not a rule break, higher ranking staff members aren't going to step on other staff member's toes. Most of the time appeals depend on what the staff member deems appropriate (i.e. being lifted (usually when someone comps/offers comp right after the situation or provides a new video perspective provided), reduced (this is usually for slight misunderstandings, unintentional actions, staff member being lenient, etc), or no action taken (usually blatantly intentional/severe or a very poor attitude/complete lack of accepting responsibility in an appeal)). As for same level staff (mod-mod or admin-admin) lifting each other's bans, while technically it can happen it's more complicated and once again is only done if the ban was blatantly wrong.

[UKCATSFAN 2]

4 minutes ago, Eggman said:

Sorry that you haven't had a great experience with our appeal system, personally I will at least try to check for appeals assigned to me a few times a day. However, for most staff, Olympus is not the top priority in their lives and schedules can fluctuate, so response time will always be different.

Appeals for shorter bans can be tricky to resolve during the ban sometimes (dependent on when the appeal is submitted, time zones, and as I said earlier with schedules of both the staff member and player). However, that being said, it is still worth it in my opinion to appeal, even if it just means that your next ban won't be longer than it can be. On another note, the appeal system is certainly geared more towards longer bans. Also, staff members are easier to communicate with over the ticket system for the most part, since we don't need to be at our computer to respond to support tickets.

As for your appeal specifically, your last response was 3 hours ago and that was after you replied 6 hours after his response, so that's not really a ridiculous wait time in my opinion. And as I stated earlier, staff aren't always available on TS on demand.

Unless it's blatantly not a rule break, higher ranking staff members aren't going to step on other staff member's toes. Most of the time appeals depend on what the staff member deems appropriate (i.e. being lifted (usually when someone comps/offers comp right after the situation or provides a new video perspective provided), reduced (this is usually for slight misunderstandings, unintentional actions, staff member being lenient, etc), or no action taken (usually blatantly intentional/severe or a very poor attitude/complete lack of accepting responsibility in an appeal)). As for same level staff (mod-mod or admin-admin) lifting each other's bans, while technically it can happen it's more complicated and once again is only done if the ban was blatantly wrong.

Thank you for reply. I really appreciate it. With that said, he simply replied to my ticket but did not explain anything and simply posted the video submitted against me. He did not explain or tell me why I was banned. If you have a ban appeal process and that includes jumping into TS3, they should be required to follow that process. I get that people are busy, I am quite busy myself, but if you are going to trust someone with the task of banning players then they should be required to follow through with the process. The same holds true with our democracy judges. You simply cant hand out the punishment and then go MIA. It is very frustrating for players like myself who have been loyal to Olympus, played with the rules for years, yet can not tell their side of the story. I think a quick look at my video will insure my innocence. I get that admins/mods are busy, I truly do but if they're going to pass out the punishment, they should be available to hear both sides. 

 

I get that no one wants to step on toes but right is right. There shouldn't be politics in this at all. And that's what it is if someone ignores evidence simply to...."not step on toes". I do have evidence that shows that I had ZERO to do with anything that happened. I just want to show my side of the story, that's all. I don't think that is too much to ask. 

[gaz 487]

Just now, UKCATSFAN said:

Thank you for reply. I really appreciate it. With that said, he simply replied to my ticket but did not explain anything and simply posted the video submitted against me. He did not explain or tell me why I was banned. If you have a ban appeal process and that includes jumping into TS3, they should be required to follow that process. I get that people are busy, I am quite busy myself, but if you are going to trust someone with the task of banning players then they should be required to follow through with the process. The same holds true with our democracy judges. You simply cant hand out the punishment and then go MIA. It is very frustrating for players like myself who have been loyal to Olympus, played with the rules for years, yet can not tell their side of the story. I think a quick look at my video will insure my innocence. I get that admins/mods are busy, I truly do but if they're going to pass out the punishment, they should be available to hear both sides. 

  

I get that no one wants to step on toes but right is right. There shouldn't be politics in this at all. And that's what it is if someone ignores evidence simply to...."not step on toes". I do have evidence that shows that I had ZERO to do with anything that happened. I just want to show my side of the story, that's all. I don't think that is too much to ask. 

Normally if they don't explain the video it was that obvious what happened to them. If you want the ability to talk to the real person that banned you, you do have to wait. 

[UKCATSFAN 2]

1 minute ago, gaz said:

Normally if they don't explain the video it was that obvious what happened to them. If you want the ability to talk to the real person that banned you, you do have to wait. 

I will gladly post the clips. It wasn't obvious at all

Either way, they owe you an explanation. 

please, go look at my ticket. go look at their clips and go look at my clip and tell me what you think

 

You shouldn't have to wait ALL day. Period!!

 

[UKCATSFAN 2]

16 minutes ago, gaz said:

Normally if they don't explain the video it was that obvious what happened to them. If you want the ability to talk to the real person that banned you, you do have to wait. 

 

 

You act like having the ability to talk to the person that banned you a privilege. It should be a right that you have as a loyal player on this server. I getting having to wait, I really do but having to wait ALL DAY long is ridiculous and should not be part of the process. Replying to the website doesn't count. The appeal process states that you file an appeal, then jump into TS Ban Appeal. So, why shouldn't that be part of the requirement when the mod/admin responds? Can you explain that?

[Ronin 286]

To be honest I prefer another server's method of allowing the person to respond before the ban is enacted.

Would save a lot of time and trouble on retarded bans.

[eggmasta 291]

1 hour ago, UKCATSFAN said:

Thank you for reply. I really appreciate it. With that said, he simply replied to my ticket but did not explain anything and simply posted the video submitted against me. He did not explain or tell me why I was banned. If you have a ban appeal process and that includes jumping into TS3, they should be required to follow that process. I get that people are busy, I am quite busy myself, but if you are going to trust someone with the task of banning players then they should be required to follow through with the process. The same holds true with our democracy judges. You simply cant hand out the punishment and then go MIA. It is very frustrating for players like myself who have been loyal to Olympus, played with the rules for years, yet can not tell their side of the story. I think a quick look at my video will insure my innocence. I get that admins/mods are busy, I truly do but if they're going to pass out the punishment, they should be available to hear both sides. 

 

I get that no one wants to step on toes but right is right. There shouldn't be politics in this at all. And that's what it is if someone ignores evidence simply to...."not step on toes". I do have evidence that shows that I had ZERO to do with anything that happened. I just want to show my side of the story, that's all. I don't think that is too much to ask. 

If I were in your shoes and you dont believe you did anything wrong after reviewing the evidence and youve been waiting for a while in TS, just put admin+ or even mod+ in your name while in the ban center and, if I see that and im on TS, I will usually try to answer any questions on it the ban (like what exactly you were banned for) and if I can't see anything wrong with the evidence or if you can provide evidence that would completely invalidate the original banning evidence, then I would most likely reach out to the banning staff member myself.

As for the stepping on toes, like I said if it's something that is clearly not ban worthy then a higher ranking staff member reserves the right to lift the ban, however, if the ban is valid in any capacity, then the banning staff member is most likely going to retain the appeal, it's not really a politics thing, but more of a courtesy thing (nobody on staff is out to big dick someone else on staff).

[Strikke 751]

1 hour ago, UKCATSFAN said:

Thank you for reply. I really appreciate it. With that said, he simply replied to my ticket but did not explain anything and simply posted the video submitted against me. He did not explain or tell me why I was banned. If you have a ban appeal process and that includes jumping into TS3, they should be required to follow that process. I get that people are busy, I am quite busy myself, but if you are going to trust someone with the task of banning players then they should be required to follow through with the process. The same holds true with our democracy judges. You simply cant hand out the punishment and then go MIA. It is very frustrating for players like myself who have been loyal to Olympus, played with the rules for years, yet can not tell their side of the story. I think a quick look at my video will insure my innocence. I get that admins/mods are busy, I truly do but if they're going to pass out the punishment, they should be available to hear both sides. 

 

I get that no one wants to step on toes but right is right. There shouldn't be politics in this at all. And that's what it is if someone ignores evidence simply to...."not step on toes". I do have evidence that shows that I had ZERO to do with anything that happened. I just want to show my side of the story, that's all. I don't think that is too much to ask. 

Just an FYI. Staff members aren't required to use TS for every case and in almost 99% of all ban appeals the situation gets resolved quite peacefully through the ticket system without much fuzz. If you for example got banned for really blatant RDM where explaining simply what you did wrong/just showing the video is way more than enough to show why you got banned. For the cases where a staff member feel like more explanation is required and the easiest way to resolve the ban appeal is to talk to the person in TS they will then reply to your ticket telling you to wait in TS for them.

The staff ban probably around 150-200 people a month (mabye as much as 300 for "good" months) so having to go through and spend 5-10 min per person would take forever so after a while as a staff member you try to avoid talking to people as much as possible to save as much time (trust me every staff member does this at some point including me).

 

Also sometimes you just wanna play and dont think about staff stuff for a few hours.

 

Staff saying they dont have time because irl is stupid, they all just sit in TS and wank btw.

[Bubbaloo - Reusable P Cup 2912]

It really all depends on the availability of said staff member. When I was staff I used to be excessively active BUT that kind of dedication will create problems in real life. 

People like to balance their virtual and real life and hey.. you should too. Breath some air. Play another game. They will get to you. 

[Google 872]

I think I have a good idea to optimize this process and it won't be to difficult.

Most people are beginning to use Discord (I'm suggesting this with Discord since it's easier btw)

So how about you allow admins to do something like this in Discord !evidence UID Youtube-Link (or image)

Then that player can go to Discord and do !evidence UID and it'll display any evidence against them ( If they already were banned before and there was evidence you could have the latest evidence report command override that or just keep logging it up to you )

This will allow players to quickly make up a response instead of first asking for a video. Just a suggestion.

[Ryan 6329]

8 hours ago, ThatEgoGuy said:

Once you put in a ban appeal the staff member has 24 hours to respond. If he doesn't you can go to a higher ranking staff member and talk about the ban with them. Sooooooo yeah

Not really how it works lmao but if it does take long you can request an admin+

8 hours ago, UKCATSFAN said:

That's still too long bro. You really expect people to just sit in TS for 24 hours just waiting??? Soooooo, yeah

 

yes, there is a point to appealing a 3-5 day when you didn't do anything wrong. 

I get admins are busy, I completely get it but when you have sat all day, it gets a bit frustrating

 

and how do you go to a higher when nobody will even jump in Ban Appeal to talk to you??

Staff have work, school, and simply lives outside of arma. Most of the time were always busy, but if we are online we’re trying to just enjoy the game. Most staff are busier then others, while some staff dedicate most of their time to olympus. The ban appeal process is actually the fastest I have seen it in the last few years I’ve been here. Back in the day you would be lucky to even get a response with your evidence within the first 24 hours. 

8 hours ago, UKCATSFAN said:

ok, I'm not going to argue with you. It seems like that is your goal. But I've messaged other admins/ mods and haven't gotten any results. That's why I asked the question. What is an effective way to do so?? Because I haven't had any luck myself

Typically, unless I’m extremely busy at work I try to respond within the first 1-3 hours of me receiving a PM or an assigned ticket. I have yet to see anything come from you. 

7 hours ago, UKCATSFAN said:

Thank you for reply. I really appreciate it. With that said, he simply replied to my ticket but did not explain anything and simply posted the video submitted against me. He did not explain or tell me why I was banned. If you have a ban appeal process and that includes jumping into TS3, they should be required to follow that process. I get that people are busy, I am quite busy myself, but if you are going to trust someone with the task of banning players then they should be required to follow through with the process. The same holds true with our democracy judges. You simply cant hand out the punishment and then go MIA. It is very frustrating for players like myself who have been loyal to Olympus, played with the rules for years, yet can not tell their side of the story. I think a quick look at my video will insure my innocence. I get that admins/mods are busy, I truly do but if they're going to pass out the punishment, they should be available to hear both sides. 

 

I get that no one wants to step on toes but right is right. There shouldn't be politics in this at all. And that's what it is if someone ignores evidence simply to...."not step on toes". I do have evidence that shows that I had ZERO to do with anything that happened. I just want to show my side of the story, that's all. I don't think that is too much to ask. 

Technically, we aren’t required to do anything. If in our eyes you broke a rule, then allowing you to appeal it is a curtosey. Granted, there are certain situations where one side looks different from another, but making unnecessary forums posts like this, instead of PM’ing any staff member, won’t help your case. Teamspeak isn’t a requirement, it’s just another form of communication. This isn’t politics, just logic. Also, it’s a video game... comparing staff to a democracy judge makes zero sense since it’s those judges actual job, while being staff is volunteer work...

5 hours ago, Strikke said:

Staff saying they dont have time because irl is stupid, they all just sit in TS and wank btw.

Can confirm I work 2 jobs, go to college and still have the most tickets usually  

56 minutes ago, Google said:

I think I have a good idea to optimize this process and it won't be to difficult.

Most people are beginning to use Discord (I'm suggesting this with Discord since it's easier btw)

So how about you allow admins to do something like this in Discord !evidence UID Youtube-Link (or image)

Then that player can go to Discord and do !evidence UID and it'll display any evidence against them ( If they already were banned before and there was evidence you could have the latest evidence report command override that or just keep logging it up to you )

This will allow players to quickly make up a response instead of first asking for a video. Just a suggestion.

Although it’s a good idea, we tend to keep ban evidence private unless the banned player shares it. Having this system will cause people to grab other peoples ban evidence, and there really wouldn’t be a way to create a verification system on discord to figure out who is who for something like this