Cops

[Farrel 1560]

Add some new guns for low rank cops like this shit is so Fucking boring no one wants to play. Do something. 

[silton 4238]

Like what dickhead

[Xlax 2719]

get cpl

[IamALittleLow 108]

It’s fair and balanced. The whole role for “deputy” is to learn the rules, and PO weapons aren’t even shit just aim you don’t got to kill them, just tickle them it’s a tazer bud. 

[Farrel 1560]

25 minutes ago, Silton said:

Like what dickhead

Something cunt server needs cops

6 minutes ago, IamALittleLow said:

It’s fair and balanced. The whole role for “deputy” is to learn the rules, and PO weapons aren’t even shit just aim you don’t got to kill them, just tickle it’s a tazer bud...... Troll get lost man

14 minutes ago, Xlax said:

get cpl

Get po and dep more guns. 

[Noble 1850]

9 minutes ago, Farrell said:

Get po and dep more guns. 

 

38 minutes ago, Silton said:

Like what dickhead

^^^^^^^^

[Remorse 148]

Navid w/ TWS scope & suppressor as standard issue 

[Farrel 1560]

4 hours ago, UwU Knoblax UwU said:

 

^^^^^^^^

Idk man lots of guns in Arm 3 and in Oly. Just an idea to get more pps on cop

[ThatNerdyGuy 5915]

Classic, “this needs changed, change it” doesn’t provide any actual ideas and when he gets questioned on his ideas he lashes out. 

17 minutes ago, Farrell said:

Idk man lots of guns in Arm 3 and in Oly. Just an idea to get more pps on cop

Weapon variety ain’t the issue, the issue is that there is little incentive for Junior APD to continue to stay on to fight federal events. 

[LULA 2022 - PT 13 495]

53 minutes ago, ThatNerdyGuy said:

Weapon variety ain’t the issue, the issue is that there is little incentive for Junior APD to continue to stay on to fight federal events. 

The backbone of the APD is deputies and POs, we have 104 in total on the sheets and using the 7 days active it drops down to 77, with Corporals it's only 96 active Jr APD. I'd love to break it down by how many are barely hitting minimums, but sadly the public data doesn't really accommodate that level of analysis.

It used to be that by average time, POs were doing most of the work, we're now seeing an inversion of that trend where most of the hours are now sgt>cpl>PO. This goes deeper than a 3 week old fed wave in my opinion, there's little incentive for the Jr APD to play in general. As the server pop declines, faction numbers will too, but it's not uncommon to find the server full of civs with only enough cops to fill a unit channel, those numbers only tick up when seniors or a group of Cpl+ friends get on. Historically, deputy and PO have been rotating doors and currently the numbers aren't looking great when you realize the huge turnover at that rank.

There's not much that can be done to alter the cop formula, but I believe that a lot of the recruiting and retention issues could be fixed by getting in-depth statistics and sitting down with a wide variety of Jr APD to see what they want changed. Winters has been doing a decent job, but the Jr APD idea form died out after a few weeks, and, at this point in the server's life, Jr APD participation in the bigger aspects of the faction will only become more important as time goes on to maintain more than a skeleton crew. I don't have a specific fix for this off the top of my head that doesn't result in a half-baked APD buff, but then again I'm not a decision maker so it's not really my problem to worry about. From what I see, it seems the APD is still working with the outdated mindset that tons of people want to play cop and the whitelist is a reward within itself, which isn't really reflective of the current meta, the glory days aren't coming back and the APD needs to take a page from the RnR's book and work on valuing the bulk of their faction more than it currently does.

[FluffyTEDDY 240]

24 minutes ago, sploding said:

The backbone of the APD is deputies and POs, we have 104 in total on the sheets and using the 7 days active it drops down to 77, with Corporals it's only 96 active Jr APD. I'd love to break it down by how many are barely hitting minimums, but sadly the public data doesn't really accommodate that level of analysis.

It used to be that by average time, POs were doing most of the work, we're now seeing an inversion of that trend where most of the hours are now sgt>cpl>PO. This goes deeper than a 3 week old fed wave in my opinion, there's little incentive for the Jr APD to play in general. As the server pop declines, faction numbers will too, but it's not uncommon to find the server full of civs with only enough cops to fill a unit channel, those numbers only tick up when seniors or a group of Cpl+ friends get on. Historically, deputy and PO have been rotating doors and currently the numbers aren't looking great when you realize the huge turnover at that rank.

There's not much that can be done to alter the cop formula, but I believe that a lot of the recruiting and retention issues could be fixed by getting in-depth statistics and sitting down with a wide variety of Jr APD to see what they want changed. Winters has been doing a decent job, but the Jr APD idea form died out after a few weeks, and, at this point in the server's life, Jr APD participation in the bigger aspects of the faction will only become more important as time goes on to maintain more than a skeleton crew. I don't have a specific fix for this off the top of my head that doesn't result in a half-baked APD buff, but then again I'm not a decision maker so it's not really my problem to worry about. From what I see, it seems the APD is still working with the outdated mindset that tons of people want to play cop and the whitelist is a reward within itself, which isn't really reflective of the current meta, the glory days aren't coming back and the APD needs to take a page from the RnR's book and work on valuing the bulk of their faction more than it currently does.

You speak of the truth my friend.

I think some of the issues are the constant fighthing with gangs that outnumber officers by 2 to 3 every single day. constant feds, BW, Pharma done by the same gang, or different gang but one gang is always present either roaching, taking over the robbery or doing it themselves.

And then there is the constant robberies of officer equipment by certain gangs rolling 10 - 12 deep and just tazing all officers and robbing them, then waiting the minimum time before doing it again. then repeat the procedure maybe 3 - 4 times until the officer has lost enough money or says fuck it and gets off.

These are only some of the reasons why people don't hop on cop anymore.

[Farrel 1560]

1 hour ago, ThatNerdyGuy said:

Classic, “this needs changed, change it” doesn’t provide any actual ideas and when he gets questioned on his ideas he lashes out. 

Weapon variety ain’t the issue, the issue is that there is little incentive for Junior APD to continue to stay on to fight federal events. 

Lashes out? At who? And I gave an idea more guns for PO's and deps what are you talking about nerdy chill out man. This is not an attack. 

And you can hardly start a pharma let alone a fed man. Server needs more cops adding a change up with guns was just an idea. You use the sting then an mx.

Like give PO's h birds no limits. Gotta do something. 

[Farrel 1560]

2 hours ago, ThatNerdyGuy said:

Classic, “this needs changed, change it” doesn’t provide any actual ideas and when he gets questioned on his ideas he lashes out. 

Weapon variety ain’t the issue, the issue is that there is little incentive for Junior APD to continue to stay on to fight federal events. 

Jr apd are stronger than ever at feds / bws man. Problem is you log on cop and you use the same gun drive the same car for 300 hours till you maybe get a corp test 

Just trying to get some incentive for Jr apd to log on and have fun. 

[Millennium 5834]

The issue is this:

with adding guns to deputies or PO’s the guns cannot be overpowered seeing as there is usually a surplus of cops. 
A LOT of guns have high penetration, the promet is a perfect example of this case. When the promets got added to the server patrol officers were given it, however promets have the ability to shoot out the engines of tempest and high tier vehicles with ease.

I was a corporal at the time it got added, I remember seeing a tempest driving from frogs, chasing it in an orca with 4 PO’s in the back, i hot dropped them and all off them ripped the engine out with no problem. Hence why it was taken away from POs, because it basically made them win every fight.
 

You want the server to be balanced, so you kinda have to be limited to what guns you can really use, and in reality there are not that many guns in Arma, with mods for sure there are a shit ton, but vanilla is quite dry.

I could continue this, however im currently on my phone and this is aids to type.

also not against you getting guns, they just can’t be stronger than an MX pretty much…

[Farrel 1560]

1 minute ago, Millennium said:

The issue is this:

with adding guns to deputies or PO’s the guns cannot be overpowered seeing as there is usually a surplus of cops. 
A LOT of guns have high penetration, the promet is a perfect example of this case. When the promets got added to the server patrol officers were given it, however promets have the ability to shoot out the engines of tempest and high tier vehicles with ease.

I was a corporal at the time it got added, I remember seeing a tempest driving from frogs, chasing it in an orca with 4 PO’s in the back, i hot dropped them and all off them ripped the engine out with no problem. Hence why it was taken away from POs, because it basically made them win every fight.
 

You want the server to be balanced, so you kinda have to be limited to what guns you can really use, and in reality there are not that many guns in Arma, with mods for sure there are a shit ton, but vanilla is quite dry.

I could continue this, however im currently on my phone and this is aids to type.

also not against you getting guns, they just can’t be stronger than an MX pretty much…

Ain't no surplus of cops atm. And yeah I'm not sAPD that's why I did not make a list of guns. I would not be the one to pick them anyways. 

[proud 3731]

add swat for feds n bw's n lemme get a slot then its ggs

[Rossco 1160]

3 hours ago, sploding said:

The backbone of the APD is deputies and POs, we have 104 in total on the sheets and using the 7 days active it drops down to 77, with Corporals it's only 96 active Jr APD. I'd love to break it down by how many are barely hitting minimums, but sadly the public data doesn't really accommodate that level of analysis.

It used to be that by average time, POs were doing most of the work, we're now seeing an inversion of that trend where most of the hours are now sgt>cpl>PO. This goes deeper than a 3 week old fed wave in my opinion, there's little incentive for the Jr APD to play in general. As the server pop declines, faction numbers will too, but it's not uncommon to find the server full of civs with only enough cops to fill a unit channel, those numbers only tick up when seniors or a group of Cpl+ friends get on. Historically, deputy and PO have been rotating doors and currently the numbers aren't looking great when you realize the huge turnover at that rank.

There's not much that can be done to alter the cop formula, but I believe that a lot of the recruiting and retention issues could be fixed by getting in-depth statistics and sitting down with a wide variety of Jr APD to see what they want changed. Winters has been doing a decent job, but the Jr APD idea form died out after a few weeks, and, at this point in the server's life, Jr APD participation in the bigger aspects of the faction will only become more important as time goes on to maintain more than a skeleton crew. I don't have a specific fix for this off the top of my head that doesn't result in a half-baked APD buff, but then again I'm not a decision maker so it's not really my problem to worry about. From what I see, it seems the APD is still working with the outdated mindset that tons of people want to play cop and the whitelist is a reward within itself, which isn't really reflective of the current meta, the glory days aren't coming back and the APD needs to take a page from the RnR's book and work on valuing the bulk of their faction more than it currently does.

Yeahhhhhhh the jrAPD form was awful tbh. The ideas we got on that were usually pretty outrageous and wouldn’t get implemented. Our current method, one that has gotten quite a few things added I might add, is just to ask juniors what they want/think when we get a chance. This goes as far as the juniors want to take it though, so it is great some weeks and not others.

[Tarquanda 672]

5 hours ago, ThatNerdyGuy said:

Classic, “this needs changed, change it” doesn’t provide any actual ideas and when he gets questioned on his ideas he lashes out. 

Weapon variety ain’t the issue, the issue is that there is little incentive for Junior APD to continue to stay on to fight federal events. 

Give PO's access to more roleplay vehicles (ie. Hemmnt Flatbed (for towing vehicles maybe), Jeeps, police go-carts, maybe a darter for scouting)

Maybe give PO's access to bait vehicles, I personally don't understand why that's only for higher ranks...

Gun wise, it's understandable that PO's have shite guns because its only the second APD rank, maybe add 9mm supp, or a sawed off kozlice taser?

I think to many it's not abundantly obvious that there is such a thing as balance. A PO should simply not be able to have access to a MK1 or a Promet MR, that would kill the server. But there are some things you could do to increase popularity of the cop role...

[LULA 2022 - PT 13 495]

17 minutes ago, Rossco said:

Yeahhhhhhh the jrAPD form was awful tbh. The ideas we got on that were usually pretty outrageous and wouldn’t get implemented. Our current method, one that has gotten quite a few things added I might add, is just to ask juniors what they want/think when we get a chance. This goes as far as the juniors want to take it though, so it is great some weeks and not others.

I get that, my main point is intrinsic vs extrinsic rewards. The APD is still working with the former when it's simply not the same motivator it was even a few years ago.

The whole undercover thing was pretty OP when it first came out. we can spend brainpower, resources and political capital making a gimmick for less than 20 people, but we can't figure out a way to motivate and value the majority of the faction?

It doesn't have to be anything crazy, but numbers wise the RnR is about the same size as the APD in juniors and they seem to have a higher level of job satisfaction. Like I said, I'm not a decision maker and you're getting paid the big e-bux to figure this stuff out.

But from my observations, I think the APD needs to fundamentally change the way it approaches rank structures, gameplay and interactions at a vertical and horizontal level, because having an almost full server with barely any cops at peak times is a symptom of a bigger issue.

[Clashingtin 1117]

Protector for deputy?

[Tarquanda 672]

1 hour ago, ClashBy said:

Protector for deputy?

We're going to have to raise dep requirements because of all the people applying due to adding a protector!

 

[Farrel 1560]

@ ThatNerdyGuy I was not lashing out at Silton. You don't know any Australian slang we were just having a yarn. 

[xxdausxx 162]

8 hours ago, BearInACaveTv said:

You speak of the truth my friend.

I think some of the issues are the constant fighthing with gangs that outnumber officers by 2 to 3 every single day. constant feds, BW, Pharma done by the same gang, or different gang but one gang is always present either roaching, taking over the robbery or doing it themselves.

And then there is the constant robberies of officer equipment by certain gangs rolling 10 - 12 deep and just tazing all officers and robbing them, then waiting the minimum time before doing it again. then repeat the procedure maybe 3 - 4 times until the officer has lost enough money or says fuck it and gets off.

These are only some of the reasons why people don't hop on cop anymore.

you guys lose a max of one kit every 30 mins if u get robbed which takes a lot of effort from civs.   your kits also cost less than civs. and when a civ pulls a taser it costs 2-5x as much to lose as a cop buys it for.  civs lose kits every time they die.  if u want to play a game where you dont have to worry about kits or money go play cod.  

5 hours ago, Tarquanda said:

Give PO's access to more roleplay vehicles (ie. Hemmnt Flatbed (for towing vehicles maybe), Jeeps, police go-carts, maybe a darter for scouting)

Maybe give PO's access to bait vehicles, I personally don't understand why that's only for higher ranks...

Gun wise, it's understandable that PO's have shite guns because its only the second APD rank, maybe add 9mm supp, or a sawed off kozlice taser?

I think to many it's not abundantly obvious that there is such a thing as balance. A PO should simply not be able to have access to a MK1 or a Promet MR, that would kill the server. But there are some things you could do to increase popularity of the cop role...

better pay would satisfy all