Gwate

14 hours ago, Skys said:

APD on top faggot

I'm gonna find you and strip you naked and take photos of you like the pre game to a cartel torture video before I tell you to bend over and put some belt to ass before I sell your taser on the black market for 3 mil. Kill all APD.  ACAB

1 hour ago, Pseudonym said:

Your mostly interpreting the handbook in a way which I thought would cause some more ridiculous outcomes, but would still be consistent, with the exception of some new stuff about medics being in a different state when they are a hostage. I think you might be conflating the medic being a hostage, with the medic being restrained.

Holding a medic hostage and restraining them is just semantics for the same thing. In both cases the medic is being forcefully taken with you. Only certain exceptions allow them to continue partaking in their duty while in a hostage state.

1 hour ago, Pseudonym said:

But if I try to force them to do something in that situation, then it would be against the rules? How would this play out if I have a medic hostage, say fighting the cops at frog pro, then the cops tell him to "leave the area or be tazed",

If the rule states the medic can't revive or do anything for people in illegal areas without an APD escort or another medic present (bar exceptions such as federals) and you have that medic hostaged then asking the medic to revive people would be against the rule. However because you can take a medic hostage irrespective of anything else, you can shoot a medic for trying to run away if you tell him to stay in place even when cops tell them to leave the area. Because them running away isn't them partaking in any medic duties. And listening to APD is not a required hard set rule for R&R. Yes in certain occasions you have to listen to APD as a rule but not all situations. 

1 hour ago, Pseudonym said:

hostages medic hostages being able to provide service to people they are instructed to,

Once again, hostaging a medic and telling them to provide service to people is allowed BUT is prohibited in certain occasions. Thats the whole point of this whole thing. You can take a medic hostage or restrain them (still the same thing) and taking them to illegal areas. But once they continue their duties such as providing aid to someone, they are now once again doing their duties. And when you do your duty you have to follow the rules. So that means medic in illegal zone (bar federals once again) can't be forced to revive because they aren't allowed to do their duties in a rebel zone without another medic present. Its very simple to get 

9 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

The RNR handbook says medics "Must operate with collision lights on at all times", therefore, if you tell a medic to turn their collision lights off, you are forcing them to violate the handbook. I disagree with this logic as I think it is pretty implicitly obvious that they would be allowed to turn their collision lights off if they were threatened with death.

I was gonna read everything but just stopped here because you kind of lost with this mention. You can't threaten someone to break a rule of the server/faction through a hands up or die threat. Pretty simple as that.

In the first chapter of the life rule it does clearly state "If another player breaks rules it does NOT give you the right to break a rule yourself." So you gotta start on the assumption that if someone asks you to break a rule or breaks a rule themselves that you can't follow along and break that rule. Pretty simple

In the Supplemental Rules under chapter 2 it also states "It must be reasonably clear who a player is engaging and that it is engagement and not a troll or a joke." Asking someone to break the rules of the server or die seems like a joke, almost even a troll perhaps . So the medic shouldn't be appreciated to have reasonably taken your engagement as anything but a joke. It would be just as preposterous if someone messaged me "VDM me or die".

I could stop the response here but I'll respond to your other points.

9 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

The RNR handbook says medics "Must operate with collision lights on at all times"

So the RNR handbook, an official rule/guidebook gives a clear mandatory requirement or obligation imposed onto them. This isn't a Ought statement or should statement, it's a must statement. You must do X, or you violate rule Y. You can rewrite the rule logically to mean, you must not operate without collision lights. Written as either a prohibition or mandatory statement, it is still a clear requirement that must be done or you break the rule. 

9 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

there is no immediate exception saying "unless they are forced to", but i'm damn near 100% certain I can take a blueberry hostage,

My issue with this characterization is how you separate how hostage-taking does change the positive status of the individual arrested. When you hostage take someone, they are unable to participate in their active duties. You may be a medic in name when you are taken into a rebel area but you are not participating in any medical activities as you are unable to. If you took a medic hostage then forced them to do the role of a medic in a illegal area without another higher ranked medic present then you would be forcing them to break the rule. A better way to understand this is a medic violates a rule when in the pursuit of their duties they wilfully undermine or break a rule. 

9 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

f you have a medic hostage, or are just simply forcing them to hold their hands up for the time being, and don't allow them to leave a rebel outpost when it becomes appearnt the APD is conducting a rebel raid, you are FORCING the medic to violate the handbook again!

Same reasoning applies, the medic is not participating in their duties currently as you have forced them as a hostage. If you had them as a hostage and forced them to heal someone inside rebel, you are asking them to perform their duties which would break the rule. 

9 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

If you try to initiate on a medic, you must allow them to take their wetsuit off first, or they would be violating the handbook and you would be forcing the medic to do something against the handbook.

Yes you would be breaking the rule by forcing them to do anything before taking off their wetsuit. Pretty cut and dry mandatory statement. You write this with the implication of preposterous nature of the rule but its a mandatory requirement. So yeah....

9 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

This is an example of a "must" which eventually does get counteracted by an exception. You could say this hurts my case, but I think this just tends to show how inconsistent the handbook is when you take it in totality with other "must"s (or similar verbiage) that do not have an exception, and that therefore my actions were reasonable for a scholar of the handbook.

I don't get what you're saying here. Musts are mandatory and if not followed they break a rule. Exceptions give certain permissible activities to otherwise prohibited behaviour. Look at a real life example. You must not kill someone, but an exception to this rule is self defence. If you kill someone in self defence, you have been granted an exception to otherwise prohibited behaviour. If there isn't an exception to the rule then the rule must be followed? Don't need to be a scholar to understand that. 

9 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

Here medics MUST return to their regularly assigned duties, which means if an entire separate third party who hasn't kidnapped the medic comes and tries to kidnap the medic, that would be forcing the medic to violate the handbook as they "must" return to their regularly assigned duties. Yet I am very confident that medics can be held hostage back to back, as long as it is from separate, completely unrelated groups, even if this part of the handbook says otherwise.

The assumption in the rule is that they are clearly discussing a single matter of hostage taking. As the rule kind of presumes with allowing an extension to hostage taking time and hostage extension times only applies when the same group has kept a medic hostage. All the rule is saying is that the same group can't take the medic hostage after that. Pretty cut and dry considering almost this same dynamic for hostage taking is defined in Chapter 8 of life rules. 

9 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

"Land or be titaned!". What is the medic supposed to do? First, check if there is a hospital nearby they can land at, if not, check if there is an air garage they can land at, if not, check if there is "Any open, urban or rural, area with the sole intent to provide medical aid to a citizen who has requested a revive", given that landing in any of those areas would not have the sole intent of providing medical aid, as there is the secondary intent of not getting titaned, you are sadly not allowed to land at any of those areas.

So if I message a medic "Land or be titaned" they are required to land at a hospital, or air garage, and if they land in an open field, they have violated the handbook. And if I titan them for seemingly flying off in some random direction, when in truth they are flying to a Hospital/Air Garage, then I have committed RDM.

Yeah, you would be breaking the rule. You know what doesn't violate that rule? "Auto hover or be titaned" Lol,  it's pretty simple to not break the rule there and therefore not be forcing the medic to break a rule. 

9 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

I would be forcing him to violate the handbook, as he is supposed to wait 5 minutes first.

Once again, yes you would be breaking the rule because that is a mandatory requirement for them to follow? Very cut and dry answer.

9 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

I dont feel like the good guy anymore. I don't deserve to be unbanned, i deserve to be permenently banned from how I want to treat every player on this server. but I want to be unbanned. not because i deserve to be banned, but because the rules don't deserve to have banned me, you don't deserve to have banned me. your nothing better than every other fucked up piece of shit on this server, but i'm nothing better either, and i'm gonna bring down every fucker around me. I request to be unbanned.

Kill piggy cops and taser and hostage take everyone. Bonus points for hostage taking a piggy cop. 

I'm not proof reading any of this shit