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Vigilantes, regardless of what kind of boost they get, should get a boost. There is obvious interest in this role, but many people are deterred either due to the lack of ability to make decent money doing it or the effectiveness of vigilantes against rebels. A general feeling of hate surrounds vigilantes because of the number of vigilantes who do not RP properly. While this is unfortunate, disregarding the role of vigilante entirely based on the average quality of RP is a double standard when not also applied to rebels and even civilians. Later on I will go into this in more detail. My proposal will, hopefully, provide vigilantes with the incentive and ability to do what they do; take bounties, and do it efficiently. I will make the proposal first, then explain it below for those who just want the proposal. I would highly recommend reading the explanation of my thought process for each improvement before commenting on the proposal. This will save thread space from commenting on things that are already explained in the OP. Please keep in mind that prices can be subject to change for balancing. The devs would better know what those prices would be. Vigilantes will have a two-license tier system. Tier 1 – $60,000: Access to all gear currently available to vigilantes. Tier 2 – $150,000: Access to all gear currently available to vigilantes + access to the MXC 6.5mm rifle ($140,000) and a 50% bounty return on collected bounties, increased from 40%. Minimum bounty price for arrests increases to $80,000, up from $40,000. Vigilantes also receive harsher punishments for failed RP and vigilante abuse. First offense – 3 day ban Second offense – 14 day ban Third offense – Permanent ban I believe that improving the quality of life for vigilantes will reduce the amount of failed RP, because it won’t be necessary to be able to get bounties. As it stands, it is disproportionately difficult for a vigilante to tase a geared rebel compared to a rebel killing a vigilante. This encourages vigilantes to use other means, including not engaging properly, to stand a better chance at being successful. If vigilantes don’t have to go to such lengths to get a bounty, and are on a better playing field for engaging high risk targets, then they won’t be tempted to break engagement rules. The tier system: The tier system will be a buffer for newer vigilantes to learn the ropes before earning better gear. This will also prevent new players who don’t care about the rules from accessing the higher tier gear, making them less of a nuisance. Vigilantes at tier 2 can also attempt to mentor the newer vigilantes, providing them guidance that they may not have gotten on their own before doing something wrong. This would be like a patrol officer in the APD mentoring a deputy, but it would not be required. Access to the MXC: After testing several weapon options, including weapons in the 5.56mm caliber and the Vermin .45 ACP, the MXC was the only weapon that provided an equilibrium between rate of fire, accuracy, and damage. Other weapons either weren’t accurate enough for damage to matter, or their damage was too small to make up for their rate of fire. Vigilantes need a better weapon for the tier system to mean something, and the MXC is the only weapon that doesn’t break the game while also rewarding higher tier vigilantes for their efforts and large financial investment. The MXC also doesn’t do much more damage than a 5.56, the MXC taking 3 shots to down a rebel in a GA Carrier Rig from 30 meters, while the 5.56 rifles did it in 5 shots from 30 meters. I did not consider any DLC weapons because if vigilantes are only getting one extra weapon, it needs to be one that everyone has access to. Increased bounty returns: If we’re going to be making all the new vigilante gear expensive so that not just any random new players can get their hands on them, full-time vigilantes need more financial compensation to make up the costs. Increasing bounty returns would help by giving boosts to their income from successful bounties, making higher risk bounties rewarding enough to pursue. Increased minimum bounty prices: To give newer vigilantes a chance to build up income to afford the tier 2 license, increasing the minimum bounty price will encourage vigilantes to leave the cities in pursuit of high risk bounties, giving newer vigilantes breathing room to work their way up in the cities. This will also incentivize tier 2 vigilantes to work with other vigilantes to counter groups of rebels when they enter cities and basically start taking over when the APD isn’t around to stop them. Harsher vigilante punishments: With great power comes great responsibility. Vigilantes being armed with a more powerful weapon can cause some people to abuse their power. Thus, vigilantes should be held to a slightly higher standard of RP, and face harsher punishments for breaking the rules. This should prevent people from abusing vigi gear, or at least shorten the process of getting vigi abusers off the server.

>Get taxi license >Buy taxi hummingbird >ohboychargelotsforhelicopterpickups.png >See call for taxi >Respond, set pricing, and leave to pick them up >Land, they start talking, not sure what they're saying over rotor noise >Unlock heli so they can get in >Gets shot >wtf.xml >Tell them in side chat stealing taxi heli's is failed RP >likewegiveafuck.brf >Heli gets chopped >Never taxi again

Something I could do is compile all the ideas put forward in this thread and create a new thread containing an official proposal for improving the gameplay of the vigilante, which would give the admins something more concrete and easy to find and comment on than searching through this thread.

So why is it that it seems like everyone wants to give rebels the easy ticket and give vigi's a long hard one in the other end? To be a successful criminal, which is what rebels are, they have to play smart and careful. One aspect that criminals worry about is their bounty level. If you decide to rack up a huge bounty, the risk is that someone will want to cash it in, whether it's a cop or a vigi. IT IS A RISK THAT YOU TAKE BEING A BAD GUY THAT THE GOOD GUYS WANT TO STOP YOU!!!! And again, for everyone in the back, VIGILANTES WITH MXC'S WOULD STILL BE UNDERPOWERED AND MORE OFTEN THAN NOT OUTGUNNED BY REBELS, JUST NOT AS BAD AS THEY ARE NOW! They would just have a better chance to take on bigger bounties and hold their own against rebels, which is very difficult to do now. Conversely, rebels have no trouble at all to down a vigilante. It's this favoritism to rebels and that everyone else should be more or less powerless against them that's bullshit.

No one has suggested anything more powerful than a MXC. Also, the ideas put forward by myself and others would prevent any random kavala kid from getting their hands it.

I like the idea of higher tier vigi's having higher bounty prices. Makes sense considering you dont need a MXC to take down some scrub with a couple manslaughters, you'd be hunting bigger game, especially to equal out the cost of the gear. This would also reduce competition between vigi's of higher tiers and lower tiers so that the lower tier vigi's have people they can get to work up to higher tiers.

I like the ideas coming forward, this is progress ! I think there should be a pay upgrade for tier 2 vigi's as well, and then a slightly larger increase at tier 3 so that vigi's can still afford to replace their gear once in a while. I'm ok with it being a little expensive though because that encourages vigi's to be careful about who they pursue, although if you're a tier 3 vigi you should already know not to go after certain people alone like gang members. Being a vigi, like a rebel, should be an investment into the play style.

Nice, now we can have a meaningful discussion :). The video I linked in the OP shows that the GA can take 15+ shots from a sting before going down, while the vigi vest can only take 5 shots. This difference lessens at higher calibers, namely 7.62, where both vests can only take 2 shots before going down. The GA vest also provides a larger protection area compared to the vigi vest. I like the license tier system. It would provide an even larger gap between new vigilantes and veterans, who would hopefully know how to RP by the time they reach that level. Also, a custom vigi vehicle skin sounds cool af :D. Vigilantes, even with all the proposed increase in their strength, will still be underpowered compared to their rebel counterparts, just not by as much.

That's a double standard considering any kavala scat, if they could afford a 130k taser, plus license, then they can afford to buy a rebel license and a 7.62 rifle from rebel which is far worse than a taser. Also a solution I thought of for vigilante abuse is to add a charge that the APD can add to vigilantes who they see not following RP. It could be called "Vigilante Misconduct", and could be used to give the APD leverage over vigilantes that they see not following the rules, which as far as I know they currently don't have.

First, I'd like to appreciate that you're one of the few people providing real argument to my proposal, and not being a dick about it. Maybe I'm just not aware of the amount of vigilantes there actually are, but the price tag of the MXC would, hopefully, deter less skilled vigilantes from buying them. This may or may not work, and could be adjusted like the AK that was pretty cheap and super effective before the price increase. Again, I also stress that I've been RDM'd so many times by rebels, you'd think that it's all they strive to do in the game. I get the impression that the people crying over people suggesting vigilantes get better gear are just butthurt cause they don't want their bounty to actually create a risk for them to be captured and arrested by people other than cops. At this point, a bounty is just a symbol of pride among rebels who think they're amazing cause they have such high bounties. The unpredictability of vigilantes could create a more dangerous environment for the rebels who are, shocker, living dangerous lives. Crime should pay, but there should be a risk involved in doing so. Not to say that there isn't one now, but from legal citizens, rebels get to do whatever they want to them. That's the change I was going for with this suggestion.

1. Cops get stings now, not just P07's, so i guess you don't know much about the APD. 2. I already am a cop, so how can you provide a TLDR if you obviously didn't read it yourself. 3. This topic was made because the topics I had seen written about vigilantes were not thought out well enough to create the convincing argument that it deserved. 4. Umad cause I have an opinion and want to share it on a forum where this kind of thing is encouraged?

If it's new people creating a problem, the 130k price tag will deter them from buying the gun, so they'll still only have a sting.

The reason deputies have such crap weapons to start is because there is a huge amount of RP that has to be perfected before going for big game. Also, if people do break the rules just get your gopro and get them banned. If these people would break the rules as a vigilante, they'll break the rules doing anything else. The logic of punishing everyone because of some bad apples, if applied to rebels, would see rebels with 9mm guns too. Plus, with the cost of the MXC being so high, you would have to be a good vigilante to afford the lifestyle, or do something else on the side. I would HIGHLY doubt that just any RDMing Kavala scat would be able to have a MXC for very long.

Someone didn't read. EDIT: Saw your edit, disregard this

Vigilantes are a source of hate by rebels, and it's not difficult to see why. The idea of getting arrested by someone and not having the chance to pay your ticket or have your buddies break you out of the APD to get out of paying any ticket or going to jail is pretty scary. I'd like to put forward some points in defense of the poor vigilantes who can barely hold their own against Kavala scats, let alone fully kitted rebels. Most discussions I see are in the comments, where ideas are lost in a sea of arguments and counter-arguments. The purpose of this post is to provide a full, thought out plan of improving the gameplay of being a vigilante, while making sure not to unbalance gameplay for the rebels. We'll start off with a gear comparison between a vigilante and a rebel and then move on to discussing some common arguments against vigilantes getting a boost. Lastly, I'll provide a solution that I think most people would agree with. Here's the loadout comparison for the typical vigilante and rebel: Vigilante- 1x Sting 9mm 1x Vigilante Vest Armor Level III 1x Skate Helmet Armor Level I Rebel- 1x MK-1 EMR 7.62mm 1x GA Carrier Rig 1x Combat Helmet (Camo) As it is plain to see, a vigilante is vastly outgunned against even one rebel. Not to mention that a vigilante must announce themselves to a rebel, in which case he will be promptly gunned down as they are tickled by 9mm rounds. Rebels, as you can imagine, generally roam in medium sized groups, about 2-4+ people. Vigilantes are often seen flying solo, or rarely in packs of 2-4. A common argument against vigilantes getting better armaments is that if they want better gear so badly, then they should steal them from cops, or negotiate for them in a hostage situation. There is a problem with that though. A laundry list of problems. One would have to: 1. Take people hostage, then hope the cops respond to the call. Then there is the factor of there even being a cop online that can provide a MX. 2. Then you hope that they will agree to give you a gun and the mags, or you have to repeat the process to get the mags. Then you make damn good use of said mags, because to get more, you must take more hostages, negotiate with more cops who may or may not show up. Not to mention that the cops may decide to do a tactical intervention, ruining the whole plan. 3. All the while, you're building up a criminal record that is un-vigilante like to make from a RP standpoint (kidnapping, probably manslaughters from cops not showing up, hostage situation, etc). Speaking of which, carrying that rifle into town, which is the best place to find manageable bounties, will get you arrested by the APD (not even including the bounty you would have if you didn’t pay it off before). Then let's say you don't end up being arrested, all that has to happen is you get RDM'd by a Kavala scat when there isn't a medic online or a medic takes too long, and now all that effort was for nothing. All a rebel has to do to get their gear is go to the shop. If they die, repeat. There’s no risk involved, not to mention that their gear will STILL be superior to a vigilante’s even with a MX. Another argument I’ve heard against vigilantes is that they shouldn’t get better gear because vigilantes are bad at RP. While I’ve seen vigilantes that are bad at RP, I’ve seen just as many if not MORE rebels who are terrible with RP. While this doesn't justify bad RP on the vigilante side, it’s hypocritical to say that vigilantes shouldn’t have access to a medium power rifle, and rebels should have high power rifles based on the average quality of their RP. And why is there so much hate against vigilantes? As it stands now, a vigilante has almost no chance of taking down a rebel, so it’s not like anyone gets arrested by them unless they spawn into town after dying and run into a vigilante who happened to be around, in which case it's a risk you take by being a criminal. The reason I want vigilantes to be a viable option is because it's the only legal way to make money, RP and have fun. If you think farming the legal stuff is fun, good for you, but most of us want pvp combat. As it stands, there are two options for that: be a cop, or a rebel. Anything else just isn't fun. I would like to see being a law-abiding citizen to be a fun experience, rather than either boring or frustrating. All I seem to see is people wanting crime to be the only source of money and enjoyment, when I feel like Altis Life could be so much more than that. As someone who is an APD deputy, it would be nice to see some friendly faces around town to RP with rather than the server basically being a cop vs. rest of the server deathmatch. To provide relation to the firepower vigilantes currently have, as well as what they would have with a MX compared to typical rebel loadouts, my friend Edmunds.Z was kind enough to provide a video showcasing the different caliber rifles and their shot-to-kill figures in virtual arsenal with typical vigilante and rebel loadouts. You can find the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N1VEjIHo00&feature=youtu.be The TLDW version of the results are that, unsurprisingly, it takes 15+ bullets from a sting to down a rebel, assuming none of the shots missed or hit their gun (which if you didn’t know, it can deflect bullets. You can see it in the video). In comparison, a 7.62 rifle from the rebel shop can take down a vigilante in two hits to the chest. If vigilantes had a MXC, it would still take 5 shots to the chest to down a rebel, which is still worse than a rebel, but far better than the sting. The shot count for the MXC also increases with distance, as it is not meant for long range, whereas the weapons rebels get are suited for long range. So, if vigilantes can and should be better geared, what should they get? GM6 Lynx? .338? No, of course not, even though rebels get that stuff it is difficult for even them to get. Here's the top of the line vigilante loadout that I would deem fair. 1x MXC 6.5mm 1x Vigilante Vest Armor level III 1x Vigilante Helmet Armor Level II The MXC could be priced around the same price as a 7.62 rifle at rebel, around 130k so that not just any Kavala scat can get their hands on it. I also think that this price, although high for a 6.5mm, will deter people from just using it all the time, and instead only use it if they need to take down a heavily armed rebel, and use the sting for other people. I suggest the helmet because I think it would help the survivability of vigilantes. Helmet would also be similarly priced to a helmet at rebel, around 500 dollars or 25000, although not the same armor level as similarly priced helmets at rebel. Still not convinced that the vigilante wont ruin your life? You should keep in mind that the MX would be a TASER, and therefore wouldn’t kill anyone which provides plenty of room for your nearby friends to save you, especially if you are already running as a group. This post is long, but hopefully provides a more in-depth discussion about vigilantes and their role in Altis Life. Meet you guys in the comments.