i Just dont understand how this was my fault? can someone explain?? VDM no comp?

[-Shawn- 4517]

2 hours ago, The Sovereign said:

@ -Shawn-   Fail call

Nope  

[David Miller 521]

 I can respect the opinion but I vehemently disagree. If we had to consider who was the aggressor in every clip like this, it means everyone has to submit longer clips for VDM so admins can identify who is the aggressor. And the length of required clips is already a pretty common complaint of new players.

you also would need to have an answer for situations like what if a player is trying to recover a previously stolen vehicle? who is the attacker at that point? What would you do with gang members defending a friend, are they the aggressors or defenders? 

We would end up with defenders pushing even harder to get VDMed, it would be meta to drive into walls and at the last second swerve back into the road in hopes that someone slams into you. Swerving back and forth on the roads, and driving erratically specifically hoping to get hit. And when we inevitably hit a defender with a ban for trying to get VDMed they are going to say they are just driving defensively. 

The guy also had 5 HP from getting tased earlier, this was a light paint trade, it didn't look intentional, and running into a bush would have killed him.

 

Not that this matters for VDM but it's a cops and robbers server, and it's not like this guy was a new player doing a silver run in his SUV.  He is doing BM heroin with a 1073k bounty. The guy being reported has fewer hours and less money. If we made it a rule that to rob someone you need to be extra special careful with the person you are robbing and give them the right of way on the shitty ArmA Dirt roads while driving ArmA 'the road is ice' hatchbacks or else the admin team is going to force compensate the guy who turned in front of you I would argue it would have the opposite effect and make new players feel even less comfortable engaging in what is the core gameplay mechanic of the server. 

 

Also, I hate talking about tickets but the final result of all of this was the hatchback wasn't banned. Compensation can still be requested and there is an OK chance it gets approved... not 100% but it happens pretty frequently. 

[-Shawn- 4517]

21 minutes ago, David Miller said:

Also, I hate talking about tickets but the final result of all of this was the hatchback wasn't banned. Compensation can still be requested and there is an OK chance it gets approved... not 100% but it happens pretty frequently. 

I want to emphasize this as well. VERY often do I reply with "I cant ban them, but make a comp ticket". Even if the admin doesnt say it and its a 50/50 situation, just put a ticket in. It takes literally 1 minute. Worse case scenario you get told no and lost 1 minute of your time. Or you get a good mood Admin who hooks you up. 

[Claysive 1469]

I have autism. 

[Community Director Sov 136]

2 hours ago, David Miller said:

 I can respect the opinion but I vehemently disagree. If we had to consider who was the aggressor in every clip like this, it means everyone has to submit longer clips for VDM so admins can identify who is the aggressor. And the length of required clips is already a pretty common complaint of new players.

you also would need to have an answer for situations like what if a player is trying to recover a previously stolen vehicle? who is the attacker at that point? What would you do with gang members defending a friend, are they the aggressors or defenders? 

We would end up with defenders pushing even harder to get VDMed, it would be meta to drive into walls and at the last second swerve back into the road in hopes that someone slams into you. Swerving back and forth on the roads, and driving erratically specifically hoping to get hit. And when we inevitably hit a defender with a ban for trying to get VDMed they are going to say they are just driving defensively. 

The guy also had 5 HP from getting tased earlier, this was a light paint trade, it didn't look intentional, and running into a bush would have killed him.

 

Not that this matters for VDM but it's a cops and robbers server, and it's not like this guy was a new player doing a silver run in his SUV.  He is doing BM heroin with a 1073k bounty. The guy being reported has fewer hours and less money. If we made it a rule that to rob someone you need to be extra special careful with the person you are robbing and give them the right of way on the shitty ArmA Dirt roads while driving ArmA 'the road is ice' hatchbacks or else the admin team is going to force compensate the guy who turned in front of you I would argue it would have the opposite effect and make new players feel even less comfortable engaging in what is the core gameplay mechanic of the server. 

 

Also, I hate talking about tickets but the final result of all of this was the hatchback wasn't banned. Compensation can still be requested and there is an OK chance it gets approved... not 100% but it happens pretty frequently. 

It's more than just that with offensive defensive.  If you're chasing someone, you have more control over collisions than the other could ever.  A person being chased shouldn't ever have to worry about stopping too fast or turning too quick.  They're being chased.  The entire responsibility for vdm when one party is choosing to follow close is the pursuing party.  They should be setting up to take a shot but instead they choose to drive close for no reason I can possibly think of other than to collide.

The speed difference between those vehicles is an easy setup to pass and shoot the front window...so why instead choose to not only stay in the vehicle but drive so close even the slightest desync could cause issues?  Every box was checked to create this accident to the degree that responsibility should fall on the persuer.  I've seen people held responsible for their own desync because they were driving too close...and if that's happened, this is several degrees closer to responsibility for the same reasons.

1 hour ago, -Shawn- said:

I want to emphasize this as well. VERY often do I reply with "I cant ban them, but make a comp ticket". Even if the admin doesnt say it and its a 50/50 situation, just put a ticket in. It takes literally 1 minute. Worse case scenario you get told no and lost 1 minute of your time. Or you get a good mood Admin who hooks you up. 

I disagree with your call because though I feel your heart was in the right place, it sets up precedent to fuck over victims of stuff like this in the future.  

 

At the very least if it's being handled like this in the future, no fault should always result in comp and not just because staff is in a good mood.

[batGooseCan 527]

11 hours ago, The Sovereign said:

It's more than just that with offensive defensive.  If you're chasing someone, you have more control over collisions than the other could ever.  A person being chased shouldn't ever have to worry about stopping too fast or turning too quick.  They're being chased.  The entire responsibility for vdm when one party is choosing to follow close is the pursuing party.  They should be setting up to take a shot but instead they choose to drive close for no reason I can possibly think of other than to collide.

The speed difference between those vehicles is an easy setup to pass and shoot the front window...so why instead choose to not only stay in the vehicle but drive so close even the slightest desync could cause issues?  Every box was checked to create this accident to the degree that responsibility should fall on the persuer.  I've seen people held responsible for their own desync because they were driving too close...and if that's happened, this is several degrees closer to responsibility for the same reasons.

I disagree with your call because though I feel your heart was in the right place, it sets up precedent to fuck over victims of stuff like this in the future.  

 

At the very least if it's being handled like this in the future, no fault should always result in comp and not just because staff is in a good mood.

Pursuer* 

Anyways, the pursuer does have the most control in terms of a collision, but that doesn't give the person being chased the right to handbrake and desync ram the person behind them. Arma collision & desync shouldn't really result in a ban at all imo, but the comp could be decided based on the factors of the situation. VDM rules on this server are dodgy to be fair. Someone driving in a straight line that wouldn't hit another person should 100% not be at fault for someone having to swerve into them. In this situation I don't think anyone is at fault, but with aggressive driving forcing someone into a position where they could crash or swerve into you is up in the air. I'd say it is good tactics, but apparently in this situation had the van hit the wall he would've died. Would this have been a combat log/suicide had he not swerved? It is all very situational and can't really be put into a rulebook. At the end of the day we have to trust the admin discretion which ideally should solve situations like these and it seems like in this case it has. 
I do though agree it shouldn't be staff in a good mood for comp. That is just a ridiculous precedent to set. Comp is a tricky matter because it is the presumption that had a rule violation/arma accident happened would it affect the situation present? At the end of the day it is up to the admin that is looking at your request. Admin roulette if you will. Still, there should be a standard for issues like this. 

Edit: I'd rather have staff comp all parties then someone fucked over by shit game code

[CmStorm 0]

@ EVERYONE just use the server rules that are in place and go ride right on people's asses and comp everyone over and over and over lmao no bans so lets just keep doing it lol

@ batGooseCan  well said 

(As reading) that's such a fair point for NEW PLAYERS (not me) just makes them not want to play over something not in there control what so ever....

AND EVERYONE KNOWS HOW BUGGY PHYSICS ARE ALMOST 10 YEARS LATER 

thanks for the read