Cops escorting a restrained person, while in an engagement. (High Bounty)

[(BurBan)TOAD 10]

I would like to make a point. Cops, find some guys with a high bounty the officer is getting fired at, He restrains a guy with a 1+ mill bounty and instantly starts escorting him to a car. Well people fire at the Officer and end up killing the restrained person, (10 health also since the cop doesnt however take the time to heal him). Then when situation is over and the people get away the cops instantly message saying we intended to kill the person so he didnt goto jail. Im sorry but I dont believe the Cop should escort the guy, Obviously im not going to shoot my guy because i wanna get him unrestrained and back into the fight, plus most of the time thats 180k+ of gear. If the Cop leaves the guy standing still and a guy shoots him thats blantant, and im strongly against this. But if you decided to move the restrained person then i believe the cop put him in danger for a (Bounty). I have heard it several times, hes worth 2 mill get him in the car and get him to HQ imediately. I think thats bs. Ever since persistant bounty cops have done this more and more. I play cop as well and have heard sergents tell a po or deputy get him in the car and to HQ while getting fired at. (Dont move the guy and he wont get shot, neutralize the situation and then move them, If you do move them and other people can fire at you then the Officer put their life in danger by moving them.) Common Sense. Just Saying.

Wheatkings post on something else.

 

Bat, on 07 Nov 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

Heya, I just had a few suggestions in mind for the APD as there are a few flaws (in my opinion, of course) in the current way some things are done. Before anyone complains and says I'm saying this solely because I play civ, remember, I am a Constable and while I personally follow the things I'm saying in this thread.

I don't believe you should be able to move people around while you are being shot at, are in a combat situation, or if you are immediately threatened. If someone says put your hands up or xxx will kill you, you probably shouldn't escort someone and run around with them. It often leads to the person being detained dying, which would then be a DIRECT result of the officer's actions, though there is never any pardon or anything happening. The excuse I've been hearing is "you need to take them to a safe location." No, when their friends are coming to set them free, they don't need to get to a safe location, you do. I personally employ this tactic already. I will get somewhere I believe to be safe and watch my surrounding while also keeping an eye on the person being detained. If their friend resorts to shooting them, then so be it, that's fail RP on their part.

I 1/2 agree.  If you are individually threatened then you should drop the criminal find a place to hide where you can view your criminal and take out the bad guy stalking you.

 

However, as an APD Officer you are responsible for the life of your prisoner.  So if at any time their safety is threatened then need to be moved to a safe location.

[Joshua24842 19]

I personally didn't think you were even that type of guy to do that, I've played with you all very much throughout the months. also I understand the risk of escorting a player, and it was our fault he was killed, and I apologize for any false accusations that were put on you. Please let stealth know this as well.

[(BurBan)TOAD 10]

Thanks man i still feel like its the cops fault for moving them, but thanks for understanding we dont do anything intentional. We do not tolerate any kind of rule breaking. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

[Joshua24842 19]

of course! I'm here to defend you. It was entirely our fault. I voted; C, btw. It only makes sense. it also makes it a fair advantage to the civ's. in the sense that they could try to free their friend to aid them in battle. in the same way cops get to re-spawn and come back. it's just fair.

and yes. for anyone who hasn't played with you, or your friends. your all definitely tight asses regarding the rules. which I love and respect. we need more players like that.

[(BurBan)TOAD 10]

of course! I'm here to defend you. It was entirely our fault. I voted; C, btw. It only makes sense. it also makes it a fair advantage to the civ's. in the sense that they could try to free their friend to aid them in battle. in the same way cops get to re-spawn and come back. it's just fair.

and yes. for anyone who hasn't played with you, or your friends. your all definitely tight asses regarding the rules. which I love and respect. we need more players like that.

Thanks man it means a lot to us. Have a great night buddy. IT WAS HELLA FUN BTW!!!!

[ZF_Marbles 15]

In my opinion, I would never leave a restrained Civ in the line of fire. I would attempt to put him into the safety of a vehicle or well out of the way of the situation, if I felt it was in my ability to do this without causing death.

 

If Civ 1 chooses to shoot at me, whilst I'm escorting Civ 2 to safety, then it is not on me where the shots land. Civ 1 has chosen to pull the trigger and take the risk of killing, the restrained, Civ 2. The responsibility of those rounds lie solely with Civ 1.

 

As a Police Officer, I am trained to ensure the safety of an Altis Citizen before anything else. Even if that means sacrificing my own life to provide that. 

[wrice4 47]

First and foremost, neutralizing the situation, safely, is the main priority, as a cop, during this type of situation. Cops are not supposed to leave the scene, to get someone to HQ, with a high bounty or with a low bounty, when there is a gun fight going on.

[ZF_Marbles 15]

To be honest, I wouldn't see the issue with removing a suspect from a battle and returning him to the safety of Police HQ, where there is literally 0% chance of them being shot, whilst the other Officers on the scene attempt to neutralize the other suspects.

 

If you want to get your guy back, and out of police custody, then go attack police HQ and halt processing. 

 

That being said, it would have to be reasonable to do so and the restrained person would have to be in the APD's direct control. It wouldn't be reasonable to see an officer doing the 100m sprint just to get the suspect under direct Police control and escort them to safety.

 

Not being able to escort a suspect, in my opinion, is hugely one-sided towards Civs/Rebels. Police wouldn't just restrain someone and then leave them out in the open with lethal rounds flying around. APD should be allowed to do this under RP sense. 

[Det. Payne 91]

Depends what your wanting meaning that it's the cops fault. If he is using you as a meat shield then it's his fault and should be a pardon. If they are actively engaged with someone and decide to escort you or be near you and you are killed, it's collateral damage and the neither shooter and IMO the cop can be responsible. As for restraining and leaving till the situation is resolved, that's just fine, if you are shot with no cop near you that's on the shooter.

By collateral damage I mean for example, you're shot down in a heli, engines out and you're going down. You happen to crash right on top of someone... Who's fault is it? No ones. Shit happens

[(BurBan)TOAD 10]

Depends what your wanting meaning that it's the cops fault. If he is using you as a meat shield then it's his fault and should be a pardon. If they are actively engaged with someone and decide to escort you or be near you and you are killed, it's collateral damage and the neither shooter and IMO the cop can be responsible. As for restraining and leaving till the situation is resolved, that's just fine, if you are shot with no cop near you that's on the shooter.

By collateral damage I mean for example, you're shot down in a heli, engines out and you're going down. You happen to crash right on top of someone... Who's fault is it? No ones. Shit happens

I agree but what i am saying is, For exmaple there was 5 (BurBan) Civs vs many cops, they would restrain 1 and take off running with them, obviously 300+ meter shots we will still fire, resulted in the civ dying getting hit with 1 bullet at 10hp. The cop was then able to hide, we move spots, the situation ended in many cop deaths and 4 of 5 of us dying to 100-300+ shots at 10hp. If you do escort you should atleast heal the person just saying, because as an officer you risk being fired at and if the civ is 10hp and a 7.62 round hits them, THEY DEAD. Just saying.

[President Kraken 3]

I hate burban for chopping my heli and I love them for staying out of server 2 and I love shooting there heli out of the sky with my friend with mk200s but they do follow the rules and comp when it's needed etc

[Det. Payne 91]

When I first got on the force back in the cadet days, I was taught to always heal someone ASAP as it was an ethical thing to do and also to ensure that if they die it won't be due to police negligence. If I were a cop in that situation honestly I'd restrain and if there was a car/cover close by, put them in, otherwise it is extremely tactically unsound to be running around escorting someone. So if personally restrain take comms and finish the fight so that no one "accidentally" dies and things can be taken care of. There is no "right way" to do things like "escort or don't escort" it just depends on the situation and logic should tell you what to do.

Keep in mind this is all just my opinion and what I think is logical for the game

[Dustin87 864]

I always move civs out of the line of fire, with my back to the bullets, therefore any bullets that you want to hit them have to go through me first. 

[(BurBan)TOAD 10]

I always move civs out of the line of fire, with my back to the bullets, therefore any bullets that you want to hit them have to go through me first. 

Thats great but when there are literally 5 people there and all on each direction for instance at gang hideout. 1 on each hill and 1 in back and 1 by construction was how it was setup, being fired at (at night) also, there is no actual way to put your back to bullets. Just my opinion. Leave the person there, if hes shot its the civs fault on purpose, if you move him and he dies, COPS FAULT. Again my opinion but id love some ADMIN feedback.

[Guest]

I always move civs out of the line of fire, with my back to the bullets, therefore any bullets that you want to hit them have to go through me first. 

 

Don't do that, its nearly impossible to block an angle of fire on someone with just your body.

 

 

 

Here's this Sergeant's opinion on escorting in the middle of a fight. If the target restrained is behind a building(Or some other large cover), and all the known shooters are 100% out of line of sight of not only their current location but also the path and destination(vehicle) then you might be able to escort them, but even that is discretionary.

 

Any other time, you're better off not escorting, even better off not standing next to a detainee. Cops should not escort criminals in the middle of a fight, even if a criminal is in the line of fire, you don't go up to them to move them away. The reason is because YOU are the target of the rebels, not their friends(Hopefully). So if YOU as a cop run over to escort a detainee who's in the line of fire, YOU are knowingly drawing fire closer and indirectly at the rebel. Yes ultimately the rebel firing at you does the deed, but as a cop its common sense that they will be firing at you. You put the detainee's at risk by escorting them in the middle of a fight. Its just as much your fault as it is the rebel who's firing at you.

 

 

 

An example of a time where I had criminals escorted into my vehicle in a firefight where it made sense would have been once when we were assaulting rebel. I had a ghosthawk, we had detainees in the big tower at athira rebel so we escorted the criminals to the side of the tower in which the known shooters didn't have line of sight of, and then they put the detainee's in the hovering ghosthawk.

 

An example of a time where it didn't make sense. Being in an urban environment and escorting someone to a vehicle when the known shooter was still in the fight and in line of sight.

 

Another iffy time is when a known shooter's location is lost but it may be possible they are still in the area.

 

 

 

The best way to make sure that detainee's aren't killed during a fight or even after its over is to drive the vehicle to them, instead of escorting them to a vehicle. That way you can provide them more cover, and minimize the distance and time you have to move them in order to get them to safety.

 

 

 

Sometimes there are situations where there are unknown shooters, and in those situations there's nothing you can do, and they will more often than not happen in redzones/prison breaks/feds because most other times you know who the shooters are via RP/TextRP. If you feel an engagement is over and start escorting someone and then an unknown shooter kills him during escort then its not necessarily your fault since there may not have been any feasible way for you to know the shooter was there.

[Sqwallify 127]

Can i use the cadets as meatshields to block those shot from hitting the criminals

[(BurBan)TOAD 10]

Don't do that, its nearly impossible to block an angle of fire on someone with just your body.

 

 

 

Here's this Sergeant's opinion on escorting in the middle of a fight. If the target restrained is behind a building(Or some other large cover), and all the known shooters are 100% out of line of sight of not only their current location but also the path and destination(vehicle) then you might be able to escort them, but even that is discretionary.

 

Any other time, you're better off not escorting, even better off not standing next to a detainee. Cops should not escort criminals in the middle of a fight, even if a criminal is in the line of fire, you don't go up to them to move them away. The reason is because YOU are the target of the rebels, not their friends(Hopefully). So if YOU as a cop run over to escort a detainee who's in the line of fire, YOU are knowingly drawing fire closer and indirectly at the rebel. Yes ultimately the rebel firing at you does the deed, but as a cop its common sense that they will be firing at you. You put the detainee's at risk by escorting them in the middle of a fight. Its just as much your fault as it is the rebel who's firing at you.

 

 

 

An example of a time where I had criminals escorted into my vehicle in a firefight where it made sense would have been once when we were assaulting rebel. I had a ghosthawk, we had detainees in the big tower at athira rebel so we escorted the criminals to the side of the tower in which the known shooters didn't have line of sight of, and then they put the detainee's in the hovering ghosthawk.

 

An example of a time where it didn't make sense. Being in an urban environment and escorting someone to a vehicle when the known shooter was still in the fight and in line of sight.

 

Another iffy time is when a known shooter's location is lost but it may be possible they are still in the area.

 

 

 

The best way to make sure that detainee's aren't killed during a fight or even after its over is to drive the vehicle to them, instead of escorting them to a vehicle. That way you can provide them more cover, and minimize the distance and time you have to move them in order to get them to safety.

 

 

 

Sometimes there are situations where there are unknown shooters, and in those situations there's nothing you can do, and they will more often than not happen in redzones/prison breaks/feds because most other times you know who the shooters are via RP/TextRP. If you feel an engagement is over and start escorting someone and then an unknown shooter kills him during escort then its not necessarily your fault since there may not have been any feasible way for you to know the shooter was there.

I apreciate your feedback.

[honeybooboo 374]

Good Work Toad 

 

 

RIP Lost 2015-2015

[Dylan117 0]

Are we deputy's there for nothing more than to soak up the bullets for you

[Poseidon 3271]

I could make it so people cant die while getting escorted, if people want that kinda thing.

[Wheatkings 245]

I could make it so people cant die while getting escorted, if people want that kinda thing.

 

LOL I'm sure APD would be for it.  Though most like the the gangs wouldn't... cause then they wouldn't be able to just shoot their friends so they can respawn instead.  BWT that is not what I'm saying Toad did to Stealth at all here, I'm just saying that it does happen a lot.

[(BurBan)TOAD 10]

I could make it so people cant die while getting escorted, if people want that kinda thing.

Just saying people would definately use that to their advantage, why not make it so no 1 is moved until the situation is neutralized? I feel Cops are money hungry, i play cop also so i know the feeling on a high bounty guy but damn....

LOL I'm sure APD would be for it.  Though most like the the gangs wouldn't... cause then they wouldn't be able to just shoot their friends so they can respawn instead.  BWT that is not what I'm saying Toad did to Stealth at all here, I'm just saying that it does happen a lot.

I agree with you 100% wheat it happens alot, but im saying (IF THE COP MOVES HIM AND HE DOES DIE, THATS THE COPS FAULT, but IF THE GUY ISNT MOVING AND NO COP AROUND HIM AND HE DIES, THATS BLANTANT KILLING HIS SQUAD.)

[Guest]

Just saying people would definately use that to their advantage, why not make it so no 1 is moved until the situation is neutralized? I feel Cops are money hungry, i play cop also so i know the feeling on a high bounty guy but damn....

I agree with you 100% wheat it happens alot, but im saying (IF THE COP MOVES HIM AND HE DOES DIE, THATS THE COPS FAULT, but IF THE GUY ISNT MOVING AND NO COP AROUND HIM AND HE DIES, THATS BLANTANT KILLING HIS SQUAD.)

 

Yeah if people couldn't die while being escorted that would be abused. People would rush to escort as soon as possible, even if it killed them.

 

Also lets not say its just the cops fault if someone dies while being escorted. It's both the cop and the rebel's fault. Can't fault a rebel for shooting at a cop, but in a legitimate RP, if that's your bro over there getting escorted you might think twice about taking the shots.

 

As I said before, imo the cop shouldn't be escorting people during a firefight. But its also the rebel's decision to shoot at a cop that has their buddy restrained. It's a two way street.

[(BurBan)TOAD 10]

Yeah if people couldn't die while being escorted that would be abused. People would rush to escort as soon as possible, even if it killed them.

 

Also lets not say its just the cops fault if someone dies while being escorted. It's both the cop and the rebel's fault. Can't fault a rebel for shooting at a cop, but in a legitimate RP, if that's your bro over there getting escorted you might think twice about taking the shots.

 

As I said before, imo the cop shouldn't be escorting people during a firefight. But its also the rebel's decision to shoot at a cop that has their buddy restrained. It's a two way street.

Ok but dont you agree if the civ wasnt being moved then the shots shouldnt be going anywhere near the civ? just towards the cops?

[Doctor James 64]

I can see the scenarios of stopping the shots towards the cops while their buddy is being escorted and i get it that cops do it sometimes i dont always have a problem with it, the only part that comes into problems is after the cop gets the guy to his car he hops in the car and drives away from the area with the criminal. Thats when it bothers me.