Locked Keeping people in restraints isnt initiation anymore!!!

[Jimothy Phillips 7]

So -rar- coolkiller had REV skelly in restraints..          jim phillips kills another -rar- member at the same time this is happening...               im banned 12 hours later with no way to record my pov of gang mate being in restraints but my dispute has the guy admit he knew he had a friend that was holding my friend in cuffs.      

 

so i want to know how everyone else stands on this as i do think its a mistake nobody wants to accept.

 

(example)

APD have you friends in restraints and taking them back into custody, 6mins has passed since the APD restrained your gang mate and youve been following the cop car the whole way.. you are not initiated anymore (apparently)

 

This will work both ways.. it leaves vulnerability for me to example taze -rar- member,  and not remove his comms... drive -rar- member around for 15 minutes while telling  him how much of an ass he is....    next step would be for other players to drive round the map looking for other -rar- members who will fool well shoot when told their friends shouts they are restrained down discord...

 

server rules for RDM in my opinion states i should be unbanned.

1. If someone commits a direct hostile action to you, you may kill them.
2. Example: Lockpicking/stealing your vehicle, rotor tapping, bolt cutting, active APD warrants, APD house raids/searches, shooting you with a flare gun, physically interacting with your hostages.
3. Example: Being armed/pointing a gun in your general direction and/or verbally insulting are NOT considered hostile actions, neither is ramming/running over someone whether or not you believe it is intentional.

In my opinion restraints is a hostile action and when that hostile action is over you should set an f5 timer and thats when initiation should end...

If anything after the first 5mins of me having -rar- member it should now be 1 way initiation for -rar- to find me and save their member for the other 15 mins... (5min overrun after i unrestrain)              ... people thinking this shoudlnt be one way in my opinion have not read whats underlined and have not asked themselves if being sat in a car in restrains is hostile action enough for them,..

 

either way I do not deserve ban and most server would shoot in my position.. im back wednseday and its just a warning for people... if 6 minutes has passed and i restrain your boys if you kill me youre getting reported... i know it shouldnt be like this but i can't get banned myself then let everyone else do this against me.. 

 

 

server rules also specify interacting with hostages. so unban me and ill be thankful.. 

Would 100% love a senior admin to finalise how they want [A] gang to re initiate on [B] gang whilst [B] have [A] member in restraints... and also why they feel this isnt a reason to say its an active engagement already.

[The Antichrist 237]

Yeah no APD got the dumbest rule change imaginable on the books where you have to engage on someone after 5 minutes even if they have someone you're tagged with in restraints.  It was one of the dumbest rule changes in history and should be undone. 

[Jimothy Phillips 7]

as i said ill be putting this to the test thursday when im unbanned... I can imagine Id be making a few reports daily        @ Community Director Sov  this is actually wrote down somewhere? I tried CTRL F for this but couldn't see anywhere that having someone in restraints isnt initiation... whats next??? lockpicking doesnt count either... fuck that rule rules are meant to be followed to maximize fun.. but thats BS i can only imagine the amount of salty APD that have reported people camping them at the station to have this rule implemented

[The Antichrist 237]

1 minute ago, Jimothy Phillips said:

as i said ill be putting this to the test thursday when im unbanned... I can imagine Id be making a few reports daily        @ Community Director Sov  this is actually wrote down somewhere? I tried CTRL F for this but couldn't see anywhere that having someone in restraints isnt initiation... whats next??? lockpicking doesnt count either... fuck that rule rules are meant to be followed to maximize fun.. but thats BS i can only imagine the amount of salty APD that have reported people camping them at the station to have this rule implemented

There's written rules and learned rules.  This is actually a written rule that was announced like a month ago.  Not all changes to the rules are added to the rules directly.  They handle it like shit tbh, and this was one of the most retarded rule changes imaginable.  it got snuck in by apd and nobody was really given a discussion about it.

[Jimothy Phillips 7]

30 minutes ago, Community Director Sov said:

Yeah no APD got the dumbest rule change imaginable on the books where you have to engage on someone after 5 minutes even if they have someone you're tagged with in restraints.  It was one of the dumbest rule changes in history and should be undone. 

1. The RP window is 5 minutes so abide by this in regards to situations such as shooting, logging out, storing vehicles, ect.

This should be 5 minutes after gang member being released from restraints or being sent to jail.

[The Antichrist 237]

I'll try to find it at some point for you but it was actually announced properly.  It's just retarded.

Youre not wrong.  This is just one of those made up rules cause somebody was butthurt.

[Jimothy Phillips 7]

@ Soverign You're saying im banned from a rule change less then 4 weeks ago which isnt actually in writing...  but if you read the rules as of today its correct... as i said the server pop will take toll when bait people to get this changed.... ALTIS LIFE RULES ARE ALTIS life rules you can't change them because of salty people.... especially somehthing about RDM without it in writing... IVE PROVED MY INNOCENCE 

[The Antichrist 237]

1 minute ago, Jimothy Phillips said:

@ Soverign You're saying im banned from a rule change less then 4 weeks ago which isnt actually in writing...  but if you read the rules as of today its correct... as i said the server pop will take toll when bait people to get this changed.... ALTIS LIFE RULES ARE ALTIS life rules you can't change them because of salty people.... especially somehthing about RDM without it in writing... IVE PROVED MY INNOCENCE 

Wrong person you tagged.  It is in writing, its just not written down in the actual rulesheet.  There was an announcement I'll find it for you later when I'm not half dead from work.  

[Jimothy Phillips 7]

@ Community Director Sov   

Apparently there's been other new rules added that almost nobody has been told about.  Apparently you're no longer allowed to ever suivest cops at all unless they engage on you first.  Incredibly stupid.  Also, apparently, if cops have someone in custody for 5 mins, their group is no longer engaged with apd and have to engage again.  APD sneaking a lot of ninja rules in to just ban people arbitrarily.   All this needs rolled back.  

Suivests cost 600k.  Cop kits are free.  There is no reason to be giving them t his much of an advantage and making them completely immune to suivests.  

Civs need to be getting angry about this type of secret rule additions tbh. 

 

 

 

Last mention of the word 5 mins on the forum for close to 3 months..........             Also it wasn't APD its  -RAR- gang.     

 

sorry to say but just because you mentioned it on a forum how would i know this? these sneak rules are still getting people months later      

i took that last comment from 

 

[The Antichrist 237]

1 hour ago, Jimothy Phillips said:

@ Community Director Sov   

Apparently there's been other new rules added that almost nobody has been told about.  Apparently you're no longer allowed to ever suivest cops at all unless they engage on you first.  Incredibly stupid.  Also, apparently, if cops have someone in custody for 5 mins, their group is no longer engaged with apd and have to engage again.  APD sneaking a lot of ninja rules in to just ban people arbitrarily.   All this needs rolled back.  

Suivests cost 600k.  Cop kits are free.  There is no reason to be giving them t his much of an advantage and making them completely immune to suivests.  

Civs need to be getting angry about this type of secret rule additions tbh. 

 

 

 

Last mention of the word 5 mins on the forum for close to 3 months..........             Also it wasn't APD its  -RAR- gang.     

 

sorry to say but just because you mentioned it on a forum how would i know this? these sneak rules are still getting people months later      

i took that last comment from 

 

I spoke loudly and often about how both those were retarded and pushed a rule change back.. but unfortunately I'm only a rep.  I've never gained cc rank due to.. politics or whatever so I have to pass everything up channels with that.

But  I 100% spoke about those retarded changes in excess.

And 100% will continue to do so.

[-dante- 5181]

3 hours ago, Jimothy Phillips said:

@ Soverign You're saying im banned from a rule change less then 4 weeks ago which isnt actually in writing...  but if you read the rules as of today its correct... as i said the server pop will take toll when bait people to get this changed.... ALTIS LIFE RULES ARE ALTIS life rules you can't change them because of salty people.... especially somehthing about RDM without it in writing... IVE PROVED MY INNOCENCE 

It has been enforced this way for a long time, not sure where the one month ago thing came from. I’m not arguing that your point of view is invalid, multiple players have the same outlook and I don’t think it’s a bad outlook, but the way it’s enforced is that the engagement timer officially starts from the time the person is last restrained and/or there are shots. The enforcement of this has been scatterbrained over the years but the ‘general’ consensus for most years was as I stated and has been the regular since I came back to staff a year ago. 
 

Just wanted to clear up that this wasn’t some brand new change or anything. 

[silton 4174]

58 minutes ago, -Shawn- said:

It has been enforced this way for a long time, not sure where the one month ago thing came from. I’m not arguing that your point of view is invalid, multiple players have the same outlook and I don’t think it’s a bad outlook, but the way it’s enforced is that the engagement timer officially starts from the time the person is last restrained and/or there are shots. The enforcement of this has been scatterbrained over the years but the ‘general’ consensus for most years was as I stated and has been the regular since I came back to staff a year ago. 
 

Just wanted to clear up that this wasn’t some brand new change or anything. 

You're wrong it's a direct hostile action which as per the Altis Life Server rules you can shoot without engagement. 

Change/specify the rules and stop making up bullshit. Ex sAPD admin makes me sick with the bias.

[doubleueyeceekay 613]

 

1 hour ago, -Shawn- said:

the engagement timer officially starts from the time the person is last restrained and/or there are shots

Uhhhhh is just shooting re-engagement now? Also I have been repeatedly told that direct action needs to happen (kill/tase/restrain/re-engage) before engagement restarts 

[CoolKiller 0]

We had you both in restraints. I let your buddy go first than our guy unrestrained you just to be shot in the face. He's a dumbass for not taking your firing pin, but he was letting you go like 6-7 mins after the fight. If it was up to me i would've left you there for 15.

[Bubbaloo - Reusable P Cup 3037]

It’s always been like this. I can’t necessarily say I am fully on board with how the rule is written but it’s always been enforced as such. 

[Jimothy Phillips 7]

41 minutes ago, CoolKiller said:

We had you both in restraints. I let your buddy go first than our guy unrestrained you just to be shot in the face. He's a dumbass for not taking your firing pin, but he was letting you go like 6-7 mins after the fight. If it was up to me i would've left you there for 15.

cool killer... everything  you said was wrong... i was their left their and was unrestrained by a seperate gang member... i knew youd be back and so waited to kill you... skelly on discord was confirming at the time he was still in restraints.

[-dante- 5181]

1 hour ago, silton said:

You're wrong it's a direct hostile action which as per the Altis Life Server rules you can shoot without engagement. 

Change/specify the rules and stop making up bullshit. Ex sAPD admin makes me sick with the bias.

Like we haven’t had this conversation a dozen times before and know my stance shut yo ass up

[Jimothy Phillips 7]

@ -Shawn-       If I had decency I wouldn't tell banned players that, 'thats a server rule' then fail to quote server rule.... and i have a server rule which is written and contradicts what youre saying... 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, -Shawn- said:

Like we haven’t had this conversation a dozen times before and know my stance shut yo ass up

But its not on the website official altis life rules?

1 minute ago, -Shawn- said:

Like we haven’t had this conversation a dozen times before and know my stance shut yo ass up

Just please confirm shaun.. I've been banned for a server opinion... not something which is stated in the server rules.

[-dante- 5181]

Just now, Jimothy Phillips said:

 

@ -Shawn-       If I had decency I wouldn't tell banned players that, 'thats a server rule' then fail to quote server rule.... and i have a server rule which is written and contradicts what youre saying

 

The same rules you’re quoting is the rules that is used to argue against it. Simply having someone in restraints itself isnt considered a hostile action. Again, I think the argument against that has validity. I’m just telling you that this has been enforced this way for quite some time now and isn’t some brand new change. 

[Jimothy Phillips 7]

Just now, -Shawn- said:

The same rules you’re quoting is the rules that is used to argue against it. Simply having someone in restraints itself isnt considered a hostile action. Again, I think the argument against that has validity. I’m just telling you that this has been enforced this way for quite some time now and isn’t some brand new change. 

unless the restrains are fluffy and for sexual intetions (consensual in which using a gun is not) then being in restraints is hostile.... google hostile. 

Just now, Jimothy Phillips said:

unless the restrains are fluffy and for sexual intetions (consensual in which using a gun is not) then being in restraints is hostile.... google hostile. 

1. Example: Lockpicking/stealing your vehicle, rotor tapping, bolt cutting, active APD warrants, APD house raids/searches, shooting you with a flare gun, physically interacting with your hostages.                <<< FROM THE RULES PAGE... EXAMPLE IS INTERACTING WITH RESTRAINED PLAYER NOT THE PROCESS OF RESTRAINING... thanks shaun for not helping so far.. i dunno how to change your mind if you wont read what im saying.

[-dante- 5181]

Just now, Jimothy Phillips said:

unless the restrains are fluffy and for sexual intetions (consensual in which using a gun is not) then being in restraints is hostile.... google hostile. 

Brother you’re arguing with me when I’m not disputing your opinion. I’m saying this is how it’s enforced. I’m more partial on your point of view than you think.  

5 minutes ago, Jimothy Phillips said:

thanks shaun for not helping so far.. i dunno how to change your mind if you wont read what im saying.

Dawg you should really read what im saying. I dont have a mind to change being I dont disagree with you jfc child. 

[Jimothy Phillips 7]

Just now, -Shawn- said:

Brother you’re arguing with me when I’m not disputing your opinion. I’m saying this is how it’s enforced. I’m more partial on your point of view than you think.  

So you don't believe someone should receive a 2day for something not stated in the rules... 

 

 

1. Killing or tazing another player without any role-play will result in administrative action.
   1. If you have been fired at, returning fire is permitted.
   2. If someone commits a direct hostile action to you, you may kill them.
   3. Example: Lockpicking/stealing your vehicle, rotor tapping, bolt cutting, active APD warrants, APD house raids/searches, shooting you with a flare gun, physically interacting with your hostages.
   4. Example: Being armed/pointing a gun in your general direction and/or verbally insulting are NOT considered hostile actions, neither is ramming/running over someone whether or not you believe it is intentional.

 

If the words stated in red was removed.. especially the last part.. id accept my ban. but miss banning me just causes me to be angry about something that shouldnt be a thing.

Jimothy Phillips plays by altis life rules !!!! got like 20disputes never been banned by a dispute.

[-dante- 5181]

5 minutes ago, Jimothy Phillips said:

physically interacting with your hostages

Also this is not the same. This is if someone steals your hostage from you/tries unrestraining them etc. this isn’t meaning other gangmates in restraints. 

1 minute ago, Jimothy Phillips said:

Jimothy Phillips plays by altis life rules !!!! got like 20disputes never been banned by a dispute.

This was only cuz I forgot to add an RDM ban when you were banned for duping ^_^

[Jimothy Phillips 7]

Just now, -Shawn- said:

Also this is not the same. This is if someone steals your hostage from you/tries unrestraining them etc. this isn’t meaning other gangmates in restraints. 

Inititation when having a gang member captive is just an altis life norm for me since 2018. sad to see how the times change. and how obviously unclear its written.. could add something so simple to state this... make me feel like ive not read the rules mate.. i wouldnt RDM on purpose... sad to see 30% server banned when i get mass reports coming for this rulebreak.

I was in support lastnight and got a 5050 on longtime players that would have shot in my position.. 

You know them audit videos... youve caused the anger in me to audit this server and see how many i could report in 7days using these hidden rules... id re write rules cuz soon itl be messy with players appealing and all imma do is show my 5 min clip of me getting RDMd... and they can deal with the frustration of killing someone with REV tags because theyre friend told them to because they couldn't take the 15 minute driving torture... 

 

its almost a troll but is it a troll when its a server norm for these players to not shoot me??? they should all know surely and ill have no reports coming in....

doubt it.

 

 

[CoolKiller 0]

changing the story to match your side cause you want an unban. no one was in restraints at the time. He ran back from manure field to unrestrain you cause i left you at salt flats. your buddy was unrestrained before he even made it back to the airport. i have a clip of skelly back at the airport before i could reslam because you killed our dude.