Are vigilantes actually underpowered?

[Tron 23]

I like the ideas coming forward, this is progress ! I think there should be a pay upgrade for tier 2 vigi's as well, and then a slightly larger increase at tier 3 so that vigi's can still afford to replace their gear once in a while. I'm ok with it being a little expensive though because that encourages vigi's to be careful about who they pursue, although if you're a tier 3 vigi you should already know not to go after certain people alone like gang members. Being a vigi, like a rebel, should be an investment into the play style.

[Dangus 629]

8 minutes ago, Skeeter McGraw said:

Don't give them a GA. No Point. Also while we on the topic, make it where with each lic, the amount of bounty needed is decreased. EX. Level 1 Person needs 40k bounty to be arrested. Level 2 30k Level 3 25k

Boom 

Eh, no. 40k is in place so that people have a little bit of breathing room if the have charges on them. The idea that someone could kill one person and then get vigi'd seems a bit dumb, and also if anything for higher tiers they should have to have higher bounties, especially tier 3 side they get 15% more of the bounty. So a person should have to have 60k for tier 3 and 50k for tier 2 in order to get vigi'd, vigi's can't just be buffed for their benefit, even if it is a needed buff, so sacrificing the 40k bounty for a higher tier is I think damn well worth it.

also, vigi's should not be aloud to have any bounty if they are tier 2 and above, because like said, then they are better than cops, so they should act more like cops, not killing or running from cops, or anything, and if they do, they get their license and or gun seized by apd if they are caught with vigi's equipment and a higher tier vigi's license. Meaning, if they have anything from a vigi's store that normal cigs can't get, if they are arrested by apd, the they should have the items seized and their license seized... or better yet, they get a 'demotion' and when their licenses are seized and they have a higher tier license than the tier of the license goes down 1. But if sent to jail, then they lose vigi's license all together.

[Tron 23]

11 minutes ago, DANGUSDEAN said:

Eh, no. 40k is in place so that people have a little bit of breathing room if the have charges on them. The idea that someone could kill one person and then get vigi'd seems a bit dumb, and also if anything for higher tiers they should have to have higher bounties, especially tier 3 side they get 15% more of the bounty. So a person should have to have 60k for tier 3 and 50k for tier 2 in order to get vigi'd, vigi's can't just be buffed for their benefit, even if it is a needed buff, so sacrificing the 40k bounty for a higher tier is I think damn well worth it.

I like the idea of higher tier vigi's having higher bounty prices. Makes sense considering you dont need a MXC to take down some scrub with a couple manslaughters, you'd be hunting bigger game, especially to equal out the cost of the gear. This would also reduce competition between vigi's of higher tiers and lower tiers so that the lower tier vigi's have people they can get to work up to higher tiers.

[Guest G.O.A.T.]

So by your logic, we should arm all Vigis with MXC's, MX's, etc. Kavala would literally be 10 randoms in essentially a SGT loadout.

 

No thanks.

[Tron 23]

6 minutes ago, G.O.A.T. said:

So by your logic, we should arm all Vigis with MXC's, MX's, etc. Kavala would literally be 10 randoms in essentially a SGT loadout.

No one has suggested anything more powerful than a MXC. Also, the ideas put forward by myself and others would prevent any random kavala kid from getting their hands it.

[Guest G.O.A.T.]

Just now, Tron said:

No one has suggested anything more powerful than a MXC. Also, the ideas put forward by myself and others would prevent any random kavala kid from getting their hands it. Read plz.

I don't think you realize how easy it is to acquire 125k, 250k, etc.

If you want better gear, become a cop. Very simple.

 

The vigi system was never intended to put vigis on the same playing field as rebels, as that is what cops are for. Vigis are meant, in my opinion, to chase down the lower wanted criminals that aren't as geared, or for a lack of better term...intelligent as your average rebel.

 

I've had a solid stance that if you try to suppress gangs, the server will decline. Buffing vigis is not the answer for better features or better gameplay.

[Dangus 629]

8 minutes ago, G.O.A.T. said:

So by your logic, we should arm all Vigis with MXC's, MX's, etc. Kavala would literally be 10 randoms in essentially a SGT loadout.

 

No thanks.

By the prices I recommended it would cost ~360k just for licenses and an mxc. Would cost ~345k for licenses and a ga, also were just suggesting ideas, not anything even I think is confirmed. Also I think that vigi's could be more of a faction on the servers if they have some better gear and weapons. They would be more fun, but there would have to be more rules and stricter punishments for people who decide to be a vigi. Also sergeants have people with them, vigi's almost always are alone and when fighting rebels, usually there are at least two+ People in the group. I like never vigi but I would want them to be more of a role on Olympus for rebels who normally only fight cops.

[Guest G.O.A.T.]

Just now, DANGUSDEAN said:

By the prices I recommended it would cost ~360k just for licenses and an mxc. Would cost ~345k for licenses and a ga, also were just suggesting ideas, not anything even I think is confirmed. Also I think that vigi's could be more of a faction on the servers if they have some better gear and weapons. They would be more fun, but there would have to be more rules and stricter punishments for people who decide to be a vigi. Also sergeants have people with them, vigi's almost always are alone and when fighting rebels, usually there are at least two+ People in the group. I like never vigi but I would want them to be more of a role on Olympus for rebels who normally only fight cops.

Here's what I am getting at:

You can buff 2-5% of the server population, and runaway 10-15% of the server population (because absolutely N O O N E wants to deal with vigis)

or

Join the APD, and keep the server balanced as it currently is.

 

Let's not forget that vigis are not restricted on their loadout, they can be in full rebel gear with a tazer and still vigi you.

[snipeZ 363]

This talk about tier vigilante's and expensive equipment is something I would really enjoy seeing implemented. a MXC sounds great since its not currently in the server however nothing better then that should be put in. The gap between vigi and rebel should be decreased not removed. Great idea's everyone +1.

[Dangus 629]

22 minutes ago, G.O.A.T. said:

Here's what I am getting at:

You can buff 2-5% of the server population, and runaway 10-15% of the server population (because absolutely N O O N E wants to deal with vigis)

or

Join the APD, and keep the server balanced as it currently is.

 

Let's not forget that vigis are not restricted on their loadout, they can be in full rebel gear with a tazer and still vigi you.

Eh... not necessarily. I think we're buffing more people and honestly if you don't want to be vigi'd then don't go into cities ungeared or without friends. Goat I guarantee that you probably have a house in some city, and you probably have gear in it, so you don't like vigi's then o kill them with your friends or don't go to Kavala. I have never seen vigi's other than in Kavala., not on civ or cop. They also will only have a 6.5

@snipeZ, you get it! It isn't making them equal to rebels, it is making them legitimately able to fight rebels. Also, with stricter penalties and more rules for the vigi's, we would make them more willing to follow rules. For example, when being a vigi, any server wide rule, like rdm or vdm, then their ban can be twice as long as a normal civs. But if they break a vigi rule, then they could get minimum 3 day or 4 day ban. Ex. Vigi doesn't announce properly but does engage, then they could get a 3 day ban, but if they didn't engage at all and rdm'd, then instead of a 3 day or whatever it may be, it would turn into a 6 day since he was a vigi when it happened.

if cops get mx's then a civ with an mx should be punished to an equal extent. But since they can't get demoted or blacklisted, they get a longer ban.

[Vincent Jacobs 66]

17 minutes ago, G.O.A.T. said:

Here's what I am getting at:

 N O O N E wants to deal with vigis)

 

this is true. and i dont often say this. this topic shouldn't be open for discussion. 

here is the scenario

you fight. you die. you spawn in to some town. instantly hands up or be tazed by some rejected cop (vigi). you friends have a small window to save you. oh wait they don't. vigis aren't bound to the L.I.S.T and roleplays rules the APD are. I have NEVER encountered a vigi that ever asked me to explain my charges etc. what is that you are saying? there are some that do that? well here is the problem. they can't give tickets. even if you pay them you still run the risk of being vigi'd (again and again). buffing a small group that would make a large group of the server upset (for valid reasons) isn't how game balance works in the slightest. they have very few restrictions already. the weakness is the gear they have and there NLR. 

if you are a exclusively play this role to taze bounties you are better off becoming a cop or acquiring cop gear. it isn't hard. everyone knows you HAVE to put in work on this server to meet your goals so get off your lazy fucking ass stop blaming bad gear. 

[snipeZ 363]

15 minutes ago, DANGUSDEAN said:

Eh... not necessarily. I think we're buffing more people and honestly if you don't want to be vigi'd then don't go into cities ungeared or without friends. Goat I guarantee that you probably have a house in some city, and you probably have gear in it, so you don't like vigi's then o kill them with your friends or don't go to Kavala. I have never seen vigi's other than in Kavala., not on civ or cop. They also will only have a 6.5

eh...I may have seen one certain vigi famous for guarding Sofia.

[Tron 23]

15 minutes ago, Vincent Jacobs said:

if you are a exclusively play this role to taze bounties you are better off becoming a cop or acquiring cop gear. it isn't hard. everyone knows you HAVE to put in work on this server to meet your goals so get off your lazy fucking ass stop blaming bad gear. 

So why is it that it seems like everyone wants to give rebels the easy ticket and give vigi's a long hard one in the other end? To be a successful criminal, which is what rebels are, they have to play smart and careful. One aspect that criminals worry about is their bounty level. If you decide to rack up a huge bounty, the risk is that someone will want to cash it in, whether it's a cop or a vigi. IT IS A RISK THAT YOU TAKE BEING A BAD GUY THAT THE GOOD GUYS WANT TO STOP YOU!!!! And again, for everyone in the back, VIGILANTES WITH MXC'S WOULD STILL BE UNDERPOWERED AND MORE OFTEN THAN NOT OUTGUNNED BY REBELS, JUST NOT AS BAD AS THEY ARE NOW! They would just have a better chance to take on bigger bounties and hold their own against rebels, which is very difficult to do now. Conversely, rebels have no trouble at all to down a vigilante. It's this favoritism to rebels and that everyone else should be more or less powerless against them that's bullshit.

[Dangus 629]

1 hour ago, Vincent Jacobs said:

this is true. and i dont often say this. this topic shouldn't be open for discussion. 

here is the scenario

you fight. you die. you spawn in to some town. instantly hands up or be tazed by some rejected cop (vigi). you friends have a small window to save you. oh wait they don't. vigis aren't bound to the L.I.S.T and roleplays rules the APD are. I have NEVER encountered a vigi that ever asked me to explain my charges etc. what is that you are saying? there are some that do that? well here is the problem. they can't give tickets. even if you pay them you still run the risk of being vigi'd (again and again). buffing a small group that would make a large group of the server upset (for valid reasons) isn't how game balance works in the slightest. they have very few restrictions already. the weakness is the gear they have and there NLR. 

if you are a exclusively play this role to taze bounties you are better off becoming a cop or acquiring cop gear. it isn't hard. everyone knows you HAVE to put in work on this server to meet your goals so get off your lazy fucking ass stop blaming bad gear. 

Literally no one is saying they should only get mxc's without saying that there should be some other repercussions., look at the entire thread and you will see that we have progressed, look at my most recent post, I throw up the idea of stricter more punishing bans for vigi's, and how they can have a single dollar of a bounty, or they lose their license and gun, how they have to may upwards of 300k for the licenses and gear for a very basic 6.5 loadout. Rebels pay 200-250k for a loadout, everyone is targeting them, no one likes them, do they are almost always alone, and when they go to vigi someone, they have all of the rookist's engaging them all at once. Don't say that the game is balanced as it is, cause the highest bounty I have ever seen a vigi get is 200k. They make money slowly and they have to work hard and be careful, cause civ's pay at most 11k for a 9 mil, as it is now, vigi's pay like 40-45k for a 9 mil. Vigi's abuse, but I've seen more rdm, vdm, cl, exploiting, etc. From rebels than any vigi. Alright, they didn't mention they were a vigi, yeah it is annoying but don't bitch cause of that, cause rebels are more trigger happy than anyone, cops ask them to holster their gun, they shoot em, cops ask them to move their car, they shoot em. In any scenario of a vigi engaging a rebel, the rebel has the armor advantage, the gun advantage... the rebels have pretty much every advantage over any vigi. The vigi's should get something cause it ain't easy for them

[snipeZ 363]

P.s. let's not make this too big. but along with the mxc can we think about the Po7? I'm tired of harrasing derputies.

 

[Tman15tmb 1711]

2 hours ago, G.O.A.T. said:

I don't think you realize how easy it is to acquire 125k, 250k, etc.

If you want better gear, become a cop. Very simple.

 

The vigi system was never intended to put vigis on the same playing field as rebels, as that is what cops are for. Vigis are meant, in my opinion, to chase down the lower wanted criminals that aren't as geared, or for a lack of better term...intelligent as your average rebel.

 

I've had a solid stance that if you try to suppress gangs, the server will decline. Buffing vigis is not the answer for better features or better gameplay.

Then what is the answer? Its pretty clear some people want to play vigi and they don't want to play as a cop. Telling people to join the APD is not the answer. Vigilantes are a small part of Olympus and as such they should not be ignored when it comes to pitching new ideas. I understand people who play vigilante are out gunned and they feel the role of vigilante needs an update. I agree. This server isn't only cop and robber based. The smaller roles need some new features too. Don't be so closed minded.

[Edmunds.Z 43]

@Tman15tmb make it happen, or put forward a strong suggestion with other mods, in this case it caters to all players in more way than one and helps the little guy just as much as the gangs

[Tron 23]

Something I could do is compile all the ideas put forward in this thread and create a new thread containing an official proposal for improving the gameplay of the vigilante, which would give the admins something more concrete and easy to find and comment on than searching through this thread.

[Tman15tmb 1711]

1 hour ago, Edmunds.Z said:

@Tman15tmb make it happen, or put forward a strong suggestion with other mods, in this case it caters to all players in more way than one and helps the little guy just as much as the gangs

I had a word with Poseidon. The dev's have a lot of other stuff they need to work on so if anything was announced it wouldn't be for awhile. Poseidon sounds like he is for the idea of giving vigi's something to improve their role as bounty hunters, wouldn't necessarily mean a new gun but there might be something we can look into as staff. I like the ideas that I'm reading so far and I appreciate everyone who managed to write a constructive comment even if you don't agree with the ideas suggested. 

[Vanilla Coke 241]

8 minutes ago, Tman15tmb said:

I had a word with Poseidon. The dev's have a lot of other stuff they need to work on so if anything was announced it wouldn't be for awhile. Poseidon sounds like he is for the idea of giving vigi's something to improve their role as bounty hunters, wouldn't necessarily mean a new gun but there might be something we can look into as staff. I like the ideas that I'm reading so far and I appreciate everyone who managed to write a constructive comment even if you don't agree with the ideas suggested. 

Honestly, this shit caught so much traction on Asylum when they revamped Bounty Hunters. There are entire gangs you can see today that play Bounty Hunter more than they play rebel.

[Trevor Phillips 58]

Tazer Vermins, noone buys them on civ anyway. 

[Dangus 629]

2 hours ago, Tman15tmb said:

I had a word with Poseidon. The dev's have a lot of other stuff they need to work on so if anything was announced it wouldn't be for awhile. Poseidon sounds like he is for the idea of giving vigi's something to improve their role as bounty hunters, wouldn't necessarily mean a new gun but there might be something we can look into as staff. I like the ideas that I'm reading so far and I appreciate everyone who managed to write a constructive comment even if you don't agree with the ideas suggested. 

THANK GOD, an admin finally likes ideas from the forums. i know, it has probably happened before, but now an admin publicly likes ideas and a thread that is put forward. thank you @Tman15tmb the vigi's appreciate probably anything you do that can help. i said the vigi's cause i ain't a vigi, will always hate vigi's personally, but do agree and think that vigi's should have a larger role on the server.

[Tman15tmb 1711]

2 hours ago, DANGUSDEAN said:

THANK GOD, an admin finally likes ideas from the forums. i know, it has probably happened before, but now an admin publicly likes ideas and a thread that is put forward. thank you @Tman15tmb the vigi's appreciate probably anything you do that can help. i said the vigi's cause i ain't a vigi, will always hate vigi's personally, but do agree and think that vigi's should have a larger role on the server.

It helps if people don't whine and beg. If someone truly wants something added to the server and they take the time to write up suggestions while still understanding the pros and cons then the staff are more liable to get behind the "persons" suggestions and look into the possibility of including those ideas to the server. The last time I remember someone writing up a constructive suggestion that didn't involve whining or bitching was when the worker protection license idea came about. Someone submitted an awesome post with the idea of having a worker protection license and it took off from there. The staff are always listening to suggestions but half the time people don't approach asking for something with the correct manner and it just gets ignored.

I can also say that before this post came about the staff sat down and had a meeting and improving the vigilante role was addressed and ideas were shared. I was not part of the meeting, but after talking to Jesse tonight I can see a more improved vigilante role in the future.

[Dangus 629]

1 hour ago, Tman15tmb said:

It helps if people don't whine and beg. If someone truly wants something added to the server and they take the time to write up suggestions while still understanding the pros and cons then the staff are more liable to get behind the "persons" suggestions and look into the possibility of including those ideas to the server. The last time I remember someone writing up a constructive suggestion that didn't involve whining or bitching was when the worker protection license idea came about. Someone submitted an awesome post with the idea of having a worker protection license and it took off from there. The staff are always listening to suggestions but half the time people don't approach asking for something with the correct manner and it just gets ignored.

I can also say that before this post came about the staff sat down and had a meeting and improving the vigilante role was addressed and ideas were shared. I was not part of the meeting, but after talking to Jesse tonight I can see a more improved vigilante role in the future.

Dope! I'll keep what you said in mind next time I have an idea. And finally vigi's miht actually become useful.