Are vigilantes actually underpowered?

[Tron 23]

Vigilantes are a source of hate by rebels, and it's not difficult to see why. The idea of getting arrested by someone and not having the chance to pay your ticket or have your buddies break you out of the APD to get out of paying any ticket or going to jail is pretty scary. I'd like to put forward some points in defense of the poor vigilantes who can barely hold their own against Kavala scats, let alone fully kitted rebels. Most discussions I see are in the comments, where ideas are lost in a sea of arguments and counter-arguments. The purpose of this post is to provide a full, thought out plan of improving the gameplay of being a vigilante, while making sure not to unbalance gameplay for the rebels. We'll start off with a gear comparison between a vigilante and a rebel and then move on to discussing some common arguments against vigilantes getting a boost. Lastly, I'll provide a solution that I think most people would agree with.

Here's the loadout comparison for the typical vigilante and rebel:
Vigilante-
1x Sting 9mm
1x Vigilante Vest Armor Level III
1x Skate Helmet Armor Level I

Rebel-
1x MK-1 EMR 7.62mm
1x GA Carrier Rig
1x Combat Helmet (Camo)

As it is plain to see, a vigilante is vastly outgunned against even one rebel. Not to mention that a vigilante must announce themselves to a rebel, in which case he will be promptly gunned down as they are tickled by 9mm rounds. Rebels, as you can imagine, generally roam in medium sized groups, about 2-4+ people. Vigilantes are often seen flying solo, or rarely in packs of 2-4.

A common argument against vigilantes getting better armaments is that if they want better gear so badly, then they should steal them from cops, or negotiate for them in a hostage situation. There is a problem with that though. A laundry list of problems. One would have to:
1. Take people hostage, then hope the cops respond to the call. Then there is the factor of there even being a cop online that can provide a MX.
2. Then you hope that they will agree to give you a gun and the mags, or you have to repeat the process to get the mags. Then you make damn good use of said mags, because to get more, you must take more hostages, negotiate with more cops who may or may not show up. Not to mention that the cops may decide to do a tactical intervention, ruining the whole plan.
3. All the while, you're building up a criminal record that is un-vigilante like to make from a RP standpoint (kidnapping, probably manslaughters from cops not showing up, hostage situation, etc). Speaking of which, carrying that rifle into town, which is the best place to find manageable bounties, will get you arrested by the APD (not even including the bounty you would have if you didn’t pay it off before). Then let's say you don't end up being arrested, all that has to happen is you get RDM'd by a Kavala scat when there isn't a medic online or a medic takes too long, and now all that effort was for nothing.

All a rebel has to do to get their gear is go to the shop. If they die, repeat. There’s no risk involved, not to mention that their gear will STILL be superior to a vigilante’s even with a MX.

Another argument I’ve heard against vigilantes is that they shouldn’t get better gear because vigilantes are bad at RP. While I’ve seen vigilantes that are bad at RP, I’ve seen just as many if not MORE rebels who are terrible with RP. While this doesn't justify bad RP on the vigilante side, it’s hypocritical to say that vigilantes shouldn’t have access to a medium power rifle, and rebels should have high power rifles based on the average quality of their RP.

And why is there so much hate against vigilantes? As it stands now, a vigilante has almost no chance of taking down a rebel, so it’s not like anyone gets arrested by them unless they spawn into town after dying and run into a vigilante who happened to be around, in which case it's a risk you take by being a criminal.

The reason I want vigilantes to be a viable option is because it's the only legal way to make money, RP and have fun. If you think farming the legal stuff is fun, good for you, but most of us want pvp combat. As it stands, there are two options for that: be a cop, or a rebel. Anything else just isn't fun.

I would like to see being a law-abiding citizen to be a fun experience, rather than either boring or frustrating. All I seem to see is people wanting crime to be the only source of money and enjoyment, when I feel like Altis Life could be so much more than that. As someone who is an APD deputy, it would be nice to see some friendly faces around town to RP with rather than the server basically being a cop vs. rest of the server deathmatch.

To provide relation to the firepower vigilantes currently have, as well as what they would have with a MX compared to typical rebel loadouts, my friend Edmunds.Z was kind enough to provide a video showcasing the different caliber rifles and their shot-to-kill figures in virtual arsenal with typical vigilante and rebel loadouts.
You can find the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N1VEjIHo00&feature=youtu.be

The TLDW version of the results are that, unsurprisingly, it takes 15+ bullets from a sting to down a rebel, assuming none of the shots missed or hit their gun (which if you didn’t know, it can deflect bullets. You can see it in the video). In comparison, a 7.62 rifle from the rebel shop can take down a vigilante in two hits to the chest. If vigilantes had a MXC, it would still take 5 shots to the chest to down a rebel, which is still worse than a rebel, but far better than the sting. The shot count for the MXC also increases with distance, as it is not meant for long range, whereas the weapons rebels get are suited for long range.

So, if vigilantes can and should be better geared, what should they get? GM6 Lynx? .338? No, of course not, even though rebels get that stuff it is difficult for even them to get. Here's the top of the line vigilante loadout that I would deem fair.
1x MXC 6.5mm
1x Vigilante Vest Armor level III
1x Vigilante Helmet Armor Level II

The MXC could be priced around the same price as a 7.62 rifle at rebel, around 130k so that not just any Kavala scat can get their hands on it. I also think that this price, although high for a 6.5mm, will deter people from just using it all the time, and instead only use it if they need to take down a heavily armed rebel, and use the sting for other people. I suggest the helmet because I think it would help the survivability of vigilantes. Helmet would also be similarly priced to a helmet at rebel, around 500 dollars or 25000, although not the same armor level as similarly priced helmets at rebel.

Still not convinced that the vigilante wont ruin your life? You should keep in mind that the MX would be a TASER, and therefore wouldn’t kill anyone which provides plenty of room for your nearby friends to save you, especially if you are already running as a group.

This post is long, but hopefully provides a more in-depth discussion about vigilantes and their role in Altis Life. Meet you guys in the comments.

[Merpfer 200]

8 minutes ago, Tron said:

Vigilantes are a source of hate by rebels, and it's not difficult to see why. The idea of getting arrested by someone and not having the chance to pay your ticket or have your buddies break you out of the APD to get out of paying any ticket or going to jail is pretty scary. I'd like to put forward some points in defense of the poor vigilantes who can barely hold their own against Kavala scats, let alone fully kitted rebels. Most discussions I see are in the comments, where ideas are lost in a sea of arguments and counter-arguments. The purpose of this post is to provide a full, thought out plan of improving the gameplay of being a vigilante, while making sure not to unbalance gameplay for the rebels. We'll start off with a gear comparison between a vigilante and a rebel and then move on to discussing some common arguments against vigilantes getting a boost. Lastly, I'll provide a solution that I think most people would agree with.

Here's the loadout comparison for the typical vigilante and rebel:
Vigilante-
1x Sting 9mm
1x Vigilante Vest Armor Level III
1x Skate Helmet Armor Level I

Rebel-
1x MK-1 EMR 7.62mm
1x GA Carrier Rig
1x Combat Helmet (Camo)

As it is plain to see, a vigilante is vastly outgunned against even one rebel. Not to mention that a vigilante must announce themselves to a rebel, in which case he will be promptly gunned down as they are tickled by 9mm rounds. Rebels, as you can imagine, generally roam in medium sized groups, about 2-4+ people. Vigilantes are often seen flying solo, or rarely in packs of 2-4.

A common argument against vigilantes getting better armaments is that if they want better gear so badly, then they should steal them from cops, or negotiate for them in a hostage situation. There is a problem with that though. A laundry list of problems. One would have to:
1. Take people hostage, then hope the cops respond to the call. Then there is the factor of there even being a cop online that can provide a MX.
2. Then you hope that they will agree to give you a gun and the mags, or you have to repeat the process to get the mags. Then you make damn good use of said mags, because to get more, you must take more hostages, negotiate with more cops who may or may not show up. Not to mention that the cops may decide to do a tactical intervention, ruining the whole plan.
3. All the while, you're building up a criminal record that is un-vigilante like to make from a RP standpoint (kidnapping, probably manslaughters from cops not showing up, hostage situation, etc). Speaking of which, carrying that rifle into town, which is the best place to find manageable bounties, will get you arrested by the APD (not even including the bounty you would have if you didn’t pay it off before). Then let's say you don't end up being arrested, all that has to happen is you get RDM'd by a Kavala scat when there isn't a medic online or a medic takes too long, and now all that effort was for nothing.

All a rebel has to do to get their gear is go to the shop. If they die, repeat. There’s no risk involved, not to mention that their gear will STILL be superior to a vigilante’s even with a MX.

Another argument I’ve heard against vigilantes is that they shouldn’t get better gear because vigilantes are bad at RP. While I’ve seen vigilantes that are bad at RP, I’ve seen just as many if not MORE rebels who are terrible with RP. While this doesn't justify bad RP on the vigilante side, it’s hypocritical to say that vigilantes shouldn’t have access to a medium power rifle, and rebels should have high power rifles based on the average quality of their RP.

And why is there so much hate against vigilantes? As it stands now, a vigilante has almost no chance of taking down a rebel, so it’s not like anyone gets arrested by them unless they spawn into town after dying and run into a vigilante who happened to be around, in which case it's a risk you take by being a criminal.

The reason I want vigilantes to be a viable option is because it's the only legal way to make money, RP and have fun. If you think farming the legal stuff is fun, good for you, but most of us want pvp combat. As it stands, there are two options for that: be a cop, or a rebel. Anything else just isn't fun.

I would like to see being a law-abiding citizen to be a fun experience, rather than either boring or frustrating. All I seem to see is people wanting crime to be the only source of money and enjoyment, when I feel like Altis Life could be so much more than that. As someone who is an APD deputy, it would be nice to see some friendly faces around town to RP with rather than the server basically being a cop vs. rest of the server deathmatch.

To provide relation to the firepower vigilantes currently have, as well as what they would have with a MX compared to typical rebel loadouts, my friend Edmunds.Z was kind enough to provide a video showcasing the different caliber rifles and their shot-to-kill figures in virtual arsenal with typical vigilante and rebel loadouts.
You can find the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N1VEjIHo00&feature=youtu.be

The TLDW version of the results are that, unsurprisingly, it takes 15+ bullets from a sting to down a rebel, assuming none of the shots missed or hit their gun (which if you didn’t know, it can deflect bullets. You can see it in the video). In comparison, a 7.62 rifle from the rebel shop can take down a vigilante in two hits to the chest. If vigilantes had a MXC, it would still take 5 shots to the chest to down a rebel, which is still worse than a rebel, but far better than the sting. The shot count for the MXC also increases with distance, as it is not meant for long range, whereas the weapons rebels get are suited for long range.

So, if vigilantes can and should be better geared, what should they get? GM6 Lynx? .338? No, of course not, even though rebels get that stuff it is difficult for even them to get. Here's the top of the line vigilante loadout that I would deem fair.
1x MXC 6.5mm
1x Vigilante Vest Armor level III
1x Vigilante Helmet Armor Level II

The MXC could be priced around the same price as a 7.62 rifle at rebel, around 130k so that not just any Kavala scat can get their hands on it. I also think that this price, although high for a 6.5mm, will deter people from just using it all the time, and instead only use it if they need to take down a heavily armed rebel, and use the sting for other people. I suggest the helmet because I think it would help the survivability of vigilantes. Helmet would also be similarly priced to a helmet at rebel, around 500 dollars or 25000, although not the same armor level as similarly priced helmets at rebel.

Still not convinced that the vigilante wont ruin your life? You should keep in mind that the MX would be a TASER, and therefore wouldn’t kill anyone which provides plenty of room for your nearby friends to save you, especially if you are already running as a group.

This post is long, but hopefully provides a more in-depth discussion about vigilantes and their role in Altis Life. Meet you guys in the comments.

If you want better loadouts and guns to get bounties become part of the APD kid

(Not directly towards you I know you already are in the APD But no. Vigi's shouldnt be able to have the same if not more firepower than a Patrol officer on the force)

Edited November 15, 2016 by Merpfer

[Tron 23]

9 minutes ago, Merpfer said:

If you want better loadouts and guns to get bounties become part of the APD kid

Someone didn't read.

EDIT: Saw your edit, disregard this

[Merpfer 200]

3 minutes ago, Tron said:

Someone didn't read.

I definitely did read, check my post again, I edited it. I gave a real point and I'll make it again. You would be able to have the same if not MORE power than a patrol officer on the force. That is outrageous as so many Vigis are real shit at RP and Failrp constantly and break rules constantly. This just won't work. Think about the time and the work and effort it takes to get to PO+ on the force. Now think, some random Kav Skat that has some money can now go get gear and a fucking MXC and just take bounties all damn day with no real work to get those weapons like the APD have to

[Tron 23]

3 minutes ago, Merpfer said:

I definitely did read, check my post again, I edited it. I gave a real point and I'll make it again. You would be able to have the same if not MORE power than a patrol officer on the force. That is outrageous as so many Vigis are real shit at RP and Failrp constantly and break rules constantly. This just won't work. Think about the time and the work and effort it takes to get to PO+ on the force. Now think, some random Kav Skat that has some money can now go get gear and a fucking MXC and just take bounties all damn day with no real work to get those weapons like the APD have to

The reason deputies have such crap weapons to start is because there is a huge amount of RP that has to be perfected before going for big game. Also,  if people do break the rules just get your gopro and get them banned. If these people would break the rules as a vigilante, they'll break the rules doing anything else. The logic of punishing everyone because of some bad apples, if applied to rebels, would see rebels with 9mm guns too. Plus, with the cost of the MXC being so high, you would have to be a good vigilante to afford the lifestyle, or do something else on the side. I would HIGHLY doubt that just any RDMing Kavala scat would be able to have a MXC for very long.

[Hot Pocket 611]

21 minutes ago, Merpfer said:

If you want better loadouts and guns to get bounties become part of the APD kid

(Not directly towards you I know you already are in the APD But no. Vigi's shouldnt be able to have the same if not more firepower than a Patrol officer on the force)

Most vigis are new to the game and don't do there job properly (improper engagement usually) so giving them better weapons will just make it worse... besides vigis usally just hang out in kavala and there are not that many rebels with high bounty's that come alone. When I was a deputy I fucked a bunch of people up with my sting so just don't be mad and you'll be fine

[Tron 23]

3 minutes ago, Hot Pocket said:

Most vigis are new to the game and don't do there job properly (improper engagement usually) so giving them better weapons will just make it worse... besides vigis usally just hang out in kavala and there are not that many rebels with high bounty's that come alone. When I was a deputy I fucked a bunch of people up with my sting so just don't be mad and you'll be fine

If it's new people creating a problem, the 130k price tag will deter them from buying the gun, so they'll still only have a sting.

[Tron 23]

5 minutes ago, Skeeter McGraw said:

Here people I'll give you the TLDR.

Tron: Boo hoo, I only get a sting and not a better gun. I want a bigger gun. Bigger Bullets = better at the game right?
Community: Apply for Cop.
Tron: Boo Hoo, I don't wanna. Plus you get deputy with a PO7 first. I want an MXC for un-whitelisted wanna be cops who often don't read the rules and use tasers are a trolling method.

Basically it's been discussed like a million times. Become a PO for an MX. Vigis wont get a 6.5 any time soon. Now stop crying and make useless forum posts that will not result in anything. 
Also, use the fucking search bar. I come here for quality roast and memes. Not to hear you bitch on the same topic we all already know ain't happening. 

 

1. Cops get stings now, not just P07's, so i guess you don't know much about the APD.

2. I already am a cop, so how can you provide a TLDR if you obviously didn't read it yourself.

3. This topic was made because the topics I had seen written about vigilantes were not thought out well enough to create the convincing argument that it deserved.

4. Umad cause I have an opinion and want to share it on a forum where this kind of thing is encouraged?

[Pablo 29]

Giving vigi's better guns may seem like a good idea but I already see so much vigi abuse going on and giving them better stuff is just going to make this matter worse I think. Also with some tactics and a friend being a vigi is really easy I have done it many of times and the sting has not let me down.

#FuckVigi's

[Ajax 643]

The only problem with that is that people get "RDMed" by vigis all the time. You don't know how many times I've been sitting in kavala with a 30k bounty and get tazed out of nowhere... it's even happened to me as a vigi. I was at the outpost buying more zip ties and some idiot came up behind me, tazed me, restrained me, and sent me straight to jail without saying a word... all because of a 40k bounty.

[Tron 23]

1 minute ago, Ajax said:

The only problem with that is that people get "RDMed" by vigis all the time. You don't know how many times I've been sitting in kavala with a 30k bounty and get tazed out of nowhere... it's even happened to me as a vigi. I was at the outpost buying more zip ties and some idiot came up behind me, tazed me, restrained me, and sent me straight to jail without saying a word... all because of a 40k bounty.

First, I'd like to appreciate that you're one of the few people providing real argument to my proposal, and not being a dick about it. Maybe I'm just not aware of the amount of vigilantes there actually are, but the price tag of the MXC would, hopefully, deter less skilled vigilantes from buying them. This may or may not work, and could be adjusted like the AK that was pretty cheap and super effective before the price increase. Again, I also stress that I've been RDM'd so many times by rebels, you'd think that it's all they strive to do in the game. I get the impression that the people crying over people suggesting vigilantes get better gear are just butthurt cause they don't want their bounty to actually create a risk for them to be captured and arrested by people other than cops. At this point, a bounty is just a symbol of pride among rebels who think they're amazing cause they have such high bounties. The unpredictability of vigilantes could create a more dangerous environment for the rebels who are, shocker, living dangerous lives. Crime should pay, but there should be a risk involved in doing so. Not to say that there isn't one now, but from legal citizens, rebels get to do whatever they want to them. That's the change I was going for with this suggestion.

[Skeeter McGraw 45]

Boys, he needs a safe spot. Words hurt on the internet. Watch out.

But the end of the day. Why give someone who is unwhitelisted in a postion with a better/same gun than majority of the police force that can do almost literally the same exact thing.
Vigis get a MXC, whats the point of being a cop. Up until Corporal, nothing. 

Edited November 15, 2016 by Skeeter McGraw
Can't spell.

[JoeL 1290]

Wishing you all the best!

[Dangus 629]

Allright, let's get this cleared up, vigi's will not get a 6.5 mxc because

1. Po's spent thousands of minutes and countless hours on cop to get the weapon they have now, so for a vigil to just go down the street and buy one, even if it is 130k, it would be pointles

2. There are multiple tactics you can use to get rebels already,

A. Have a tactical advantage and good cover when engaging. Don't stand right in front of him and try to ask him to put his hands up, that would be pointless cause everyday you'll lose that fight.

B. Spray there legs, not there chest cause it isn't hard to hit their legs when they're standing still. The reason they would be standing still is because they will always assume you have a weaker gun and that you'll be right behind them.

C. If the rebels have friends, don't immediately rush to restrain the guy, because his friends will look at his body first and cover his body, wait a couple seconds so that his friends might think you're not right next to him. If they do know you're next to, or near him then you can gaze the guy as many times as needed until you taze him and his friends, or until it seems safe.

D. Anyone interferes with you trying to get the guy, you can shoot, ex. If some kid has a rook and is shooting you, even if he doesn't have a 40k bounty, someone clearly intentionally is trying to hit you, someone is trying to block you from shooting the rebel or his friends. Under all of these circumstances, I would personally shoot them.

E. Even though it would cost more, vigi's can and should wear ga's from rebel, they could have a small house with a crate that they fill up with ga's every so often and use them. Ga's can tank shots. If hit in the chest, it could take 3 maybe 4 shots, if they are bad.

Here are some potential fixes though,

1. Vigi's could hace a 5.56 tazer, would still require a lot of shots to down someone, but it is better than 9 mil.

2. Vigí's armor could be increased for the ability to take more shots, but they would keep the 9 mil.

3. Vigi's could have an easier way of restraining someone, that doesn't take an eternity to do.

 

Thats my two cents. Personally I think vigi's shouldn't get better guns, if anything they should get better armor, that is available at the store.

[MrMarek 25]

1 hour ago, Skeeter McGraw said:

Here people I'll give you the TLDR.

Tron: Boo hoo, I only get a sting and not a better gun. I want a bigger gun. Bigger Bullets = better at the game right?
Community: Apply for Cop.
Tron: Boo Hoo, I don't wanna. Plus you get deputy with a PO7 first. I want an MXC for un-whitelisted wanna be cops who often don't read the rules and use tasers are a trolling method.

Basically it's been discussed like a million times. Become a PO for an MX. Vigis wont get a 6.5 any time soon. Now stop crying and make useless forum posts that will not result in anything. 
Also, use the fucking search bar. I come here for quality roast and memes. Not to hear you bitch on the same topic we all already know ain't happening. 

 

So what you want is for Vigi's to stay the way they are now? just running around Kavala catching rebels off guard, turning in fresh spawn rebels, and taking 40k bounties because they can't get any bigger bounties?

*TRIGGERED* "Join the APD if you want an MX" *TRIGGERED*

The point of playing Vigilante is being a fucking Vigilante, not a cop. If you join the APD you're not a Vigilante you're a cop, I see this argument every time this topic comes up and it's just ridiculous that people can't comprehend the point of "Vigilantes are under powered, maybe we should give them a fair opportunity to win a fight?" the point is to change Vigilante, not become a cop, that argument is just a straight up invalid response.

 

 Maybe a few reasons as to why Vigilantes are so frowned upon is because it's relatively easy to play, it can be expensive but most people who start out can make enough money to afford Vigilante gear, my first month on Olympus was a back and forth between playing Vigilante and losing all of my money, then farming it all back and then rinse and repeat.  This creates an environment of Vigilantes that just go around making whatever money they can, and that includes abusing their Vigilante license, and committing other acts of greed like i stated above.  Nothing's going to change with Vigilantes until one of the Developers really decides to sit down and give it some attention, (not dissing on the Developers they're gr8 m8), but until they decide to recognize that Vigilante is overall hurting the server, i'm going to continue to argue that making the Vigilante role an actual viable option would improve RP, cut back on the influence of Rebels, and give an alternative to people who don't want to be in the APD, but still want to be a figure of justice.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Cheshyre
removed a word that didnt belong

[Tman15tmb 1813]

51 minutes ago, Skeeter McGraw said:

Boys, he needs a safe spot. Words hurt on the internet. Watch out.

But the end of the day. Why give someone who is unwhitelisted in a postion with a better/same gun than majority of the police force that can do almost literally the same exact thing.
Vigis get a MXC, whats the point of being a cop. Up until Corporal, nothing. 

Holy shit! A semi-constructive post! I don't believe what I'm seeing.

[Tron 23]

24 minutes ago, DANGUSDEAN said:

1. Po's spent thousands of minutes and countless hours on cop to get the weapon they have now, so for a vigil to just go down the street and buy one, even if it is 130k, it would be pointles

That's a double standard considering any kavala scat, if they could afford a 130k taser, plus license, then they can afford to buy a rebel license and a 7.62 rifle from rebel which is far worse than a taser. Also a solution I thought of for vigilante abuse is to add a charge that the APD can add to vigilantes who they see not following RP. It could be called "Vigilante Misconduct", and could be used to give the APD leverage over vigilantes that they see not following the rules, which as far as I know they currently don't have.

[Skeeter McGraw 45]

26 minutes ago, Cheshyre said:

So what you want is for Vigi's to stay the way they are now? just running around Kavala catching rebels off guard, turning in fresh spawn rebels, and taking 40k bounties because they can't get any bigger bounties?

*TRIGGERED* "Join the APD if you want an MX" *TRIGGERED*

The point of playing Vigilante is being a fucking Vigilante, not a cop. If you join the APD you're not a Vigilante you're a cop, I see this argument every time this topic comes up and it's just ridiculous that people can't comprehend the point of "Vigilantes are under powered, maybe we should give them a fair opportunity to win a fight?" the point is to change Vigilante, not become a cop, that argument is just a straight up invalid response.

 

 Maybe a few reasons as to why Vigilantes are so frowned upon is because it's relatively easy to play, it can be expensive but most people who start out can make enough money to afford Vigilante gear, my first month on Olympus was a back and forth between playing Vigilante and losing all of my money, then farming it all back and then rinse and repeat.  This creates an environment of Vigilantes that just go around making whatever money they can, and that includes abusing their Vigilante license, and committing other acts of greed like i stated above.  Nothing's going to change with Vigilantes until one of the Developers really decides to sit down and give it some attention, (not dissing on the Developers they're gr8 m8), but until they decide to recognize that Vigilante is overall hurting the server, i'm going to continue to argue that making the Vigilante role an actual viable option would improve RP, cut back on the influence of Rebels, and give an alternative to people who don't want to be in the APD, but still want to be a figure of justice.

Vigis were only mean't was a filler spot before APD persay. Vigis are always going to be underpowered compared to rebels/cops. Both sides have access to 7.62mm. Stings are good guns, get into CQC and you will win majority of the time unless you fight a vector. And honestly, ArmA is buggy AF, you will win majority of your fights in buildings to. Espcially with an SMG. Last time I checked, Vigis are the only people that have access to the Carrier Lite, Which is better than the GA in bullet penetration. 

You want a old players opinion? Make Vigi a 3 Level system. Make Level 1 Lic- 40k, give them access to Sting and Tac Vest, along with the smokes. Make Level 2 Lic 100k, give them access to MXC(80k) and Carrier Lite, along with bottom tier shit. Also Make Level 3 lic - 20k, While making "Suggestions" Give Vigis the ability to buy a "police" Offroad with a custom Vigi Skin.( 25k)
Remove Offroad from APD and give Deputies SUVs' and Quads ( Im down for a quad.)

18 minutes ago, Tman15tmb said:

Holy shit! A semi-constructive post! I don't believe what I'm seeing.

Round 2

Edited November 15, 2016 by Skeeter McGraw

[Tron 23]

6 minutes ago, Skeeter McGraw said:

Vigis are the only people that have access to the Carrier Lite, Which is better than the GA in bullet penetration.

Nice, now we can have a meaningful discussion :). The video I linked in the OP shows that the GA can take 15+ shots from a sting before going down, while the vigi vest can only take 5 shots. This difference lessens at higher calibers, namely 7.62, where both vests can only take 2 shots before going down. The GA vest also provides a larger protection area compared to the vigi vest. I like the license tier system. It would provide an even larger gap between new vigilantes and veterans, who would hopefully know how to RP by the time they reach that level. Also, a custom vigi vehicle skin sounds cool af :D.

14 minutes ago, Skeeter McGraw said:

Vigis are always going to be underpowered compared to rebels/cops.

Vigilantes, even with all the proposed increase in their strength, will still be underpowered compared to their rebel counterparts, just not by as much.

[Dangus 629]

18 minutes ago, Skeeter McGraw said:

Vigis were only mean't was a filler spot before APD persay. Vigis are always going to be underpowered compared to rebels/cops. Both sides have access to 7.62mm. Stings are good guns, get into CQC and you will win majority of the time unless you fight a vector. And honestly, ArmA is buggy AF, you will win majority of your fights in buildings to. Espcially with an SMG. Last time I checked, Vigis are the only people that have access to the Carrier Lite, Which is better than the GA in bullet penetration. 

You want a old players opinion? Make Vigi a 3 Level system. Make Level 1 Lic- 40k, give them access to Sting and Tac Vest, along with the smokes. Make Level 2 Lic 100k, give them access to MXC(80k) and Carrier Lite, along with bottom tier shit. Also Make Level 3 lic - 20k, While making "Suggestions" Give Vigis the ability to buy a "police" Offroad with a custom Vigi Skin.( 25k)
Remove Offroad from APD and give Deputies SUVs' and Quads ( Im down for a quad.)

Round 2

would cost a hell of a lot more for level two and the gun, because then some rebel could come by and buy the licenses then buy 5-10 mxc'c and then could resell for a profit. Or they could use them to rp as a cop, or who knows what else they could come up with. at your plan, I could buy 5 mxc's and the licenses for 540k and could resell for 800k-1mil. I've payed 150-200k for an max before, so ghry could make s several hundred thousand dollar profit which your "old players opinion". 

Constructive criticism is what I've provided. Increase prices to a lot more, and you have an idea. Like the idea though, could prevent easy access for the idea

[Skeeter McGraw 45]

3 minutes ago, Tron said:

Nice, now we can have a meaningful discussion :). The video I linked in the OP shows that the GA can take 15+ shots from a sting before going down, while the vigi vest can only take 5 shots. This difference lessens at higher calibers, namely 7.62, where both vests can only take 2 shots before going down. The GA vest also provides a larger protection area compared to the vigi vest. I like the license tier system. It would provide an even larger gap between new vigilantes and veterans, who would hopefully know how to RP by the time they reach that level. Also, a custom vigi vehicle skin sounds cool af :D.

Vigilantes, even with all the proposed increase in their strength, will still be underpowered compared to their rebel counterparts, just not by as much.

Shoot dem in the head. Or Spray and Pray. Everyone here has a background in COD. Evening out gameplay isn't that bad of an idea. Just have to do it properly. 

1 minute ago, DANGUSDEAN said:

would cost a hell of a lot more for level two and the gun, because then some rebel could come by and buy the licenses then buy 5-10 mxc'c and then could resell for a profit. Or they could use them to rp as a cop, or who knows what else they could come up with. at your plan, I could buy 5 mxc's and the licenses for 540k and could resell for 800k-1mil. I've payed 150-200k for an max before, so ghry could make s several hundred thousand dollar profit which your "old players opinion". 

Constructive criticism is what I've provided. Increase prices to a lot more, and you have an idea. Like the idea though, could prevent easy access for the idea

Was example. Not disappointed. Room for Improvement.

[Tman15tmb 1813]

I agree with half of what Skeeter is trying to say. Giving vigilantes a leveling system towards better gear might be a way to weed out the vigilantes that don't understand the rules. Also there would need to be a rule kinda like a worker protection license that makes it so you can't do illegal activities and if you do choose to partake in illegal activities then your vigi license gets seized. That way there wouldn't be a ton of vigilantes going around trying to take people hostage.

[Dangus 629]

3 minutes ago, Tman15tmb said:

I agree with half of what Skeeter is trying to say. Giving vigilantes a leveling system towards better gear might be a way to weed out the vigilantes that don't understand the rules. Also there would need to be a rule kinda like a worker protection license that makes it so you can't do illegal activities and if you do choose to partake in illegal activities then your vigi license gets seized. That way there wouldn't be a ton of vigilantes going around trying to take people hostage.

True, although honestly, if I'm gonna take hostages, I'm gonna take unarmed people, if they run, then I'll kill them. So I wouldn't use a vigi gun and license to get hostages. But yeah what skeeter said I think would help, and maybe if they have level 2 or tier 2 or whatever, then they could have a misuse of vigilante license added if they are not properly using their gun and/or their license.

tier system would be good, but tier 2 and above should be weeded out to legitimately serious vigi's who will actually be vigi's for a while. So to prevent that, we need to make them dedicated by pouring money into it if they want the better stuff. 

-Tier 1- everything that vigi's has now, and same cost.

 

-Tier 2- License cost - 125k

            Gun - MXC - 165k

            Vest - Carrier Lite - 30k

 

-Tier 3- License cost - 150k

            Vest - GA carrier GL - 80k

            Vehicle - offroad(vigi) - 50k

            -Perk-

            Vigi's with Tier 3 can get more money off of sending people to jail, instead of 40% it is increased to 55% of the bounty. 

 

This is is a rough idea of what the tier system could look like. Obviously this can be changed and prices fixed for spcertain things if needed.

DO NOT SAY IT SHOUDL BE CHEAP, IT IS LIKE APD, A PRIVILEGE NOT A RIGHT.

prices for the two top tiers need to be expensive as hell, this can prevent a rich rebel from just getting mxc's and such at a cheap price. Guns and vests need to be expensive for serious vigi's who plan to stay that way for a while.

[Edmunds.Z 43]

I remember one of my frustrations for playing vigilante is not having a steady means to acquire a decent weapon, my constant complaint is that the average amount of rounds required to down somebody with gear took way too many rounds. the matter of the fact is that it is unbalanced, It is true that a lot of people do not follow the rules, but that's not only vigilantes, a huge number of rebels dc when they get lethaled by APD and should be punished just like the vigilantes who abuse their ability to send people to jail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N1VEjIHo00&feature=youtu.be

vid for reference of ballistics between the vest to back my claims of rounds vs armor

[Skeeter McGraw 45]

Just now, DANGUSDEAN said:

True, although honestly, if I'm gonna take hostages, I'm gonna take unarmed people, if they run, then I'll kill them. So I wouldn't use a vigi gun and license to get hostages. But yeah what skeeter said I think would help, and maybe if they have level 2 or tier 2 or whatever, then they could have a misuse of vigilante license added if they are not properly using their gun and/or their license.

tier system would be good, but tier 2 and above should be weeded out to legitimately serious vigi's who will actually be vigi's for a while. So to prevent that, we need to make them dedicated by pouring money into it if they want the better stuff. 

-Tier 1- everything that vigi's has now, and same cost.

 

-Tier 2- License cost - 125k

            Gun - MXC - 165k

            Vest - Carrier Lite - 30k

 

-Tier 3- License cost - 150k

            Vest - GA carrier GL - 80k

            Vehicle - offroad(vigi) - 50k

            -Perk-

            Vigi's with Tier 3 can get more money off of sending people to jail, instead of 40% it is increased to 55% of the bounty. 

 

This is is a rough idea of what the tier system could look like. Obviously this can be changed and prices fixed for spcertain things if needed.

DO NOT SAY IT SHOUDL BE CHEAP, IT IS LIKE APD, A PRIVILEGE NOT A RIGHT.

prices for the two top tiers need to be expensive as hell, this can prevent a rich rebel from just getting mxc's and such at a cheap price. Guns and vests need to be expensive for serious vigi's who plan to stay that way for a while.

Don't give them a GA. No Point. Also while we on the topic, make it where with each lic, the amount of bounty needed is decreased. EX. Level 1 Person needs 40k bounty to be arrested. Level 2 30k Level 3 25k

Boom