Cops/Medics at cartels: Poll

[Mr Kevin 329]

3 hours ago, McDili said:

I guess nobody noticed that the handbook has already been updated.

 

Officers may only enter Rebel outposts or Cartel areas when:

1. There is a Sergeant or higher in the group.
2. At least 3 officers in the squad.
3. Must have lights and sirens on while entering.

 

 

 

This is a good idea and I like it this way but I find it quite annoying that medics are able to go in whenever they want and it feels like a never-ending fight. If they made some type of changes to the ability to enter these areas for medics then I feel this could benefit to the development of the server and it would help to avoid the hiding of rebels in these areas.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Mr Kevin said:

This is a good idea and I like it this way but I find it quite annoying that medics are able to go in whenever they want and it feels like a never-ending fight. If they made some type of changes to the ability to enter these areas for medics then I feel this could benefit to the development of the server and it would help to avoid the hiding of rebels in these areas.

You do realize that Medics lose their immunity in red zones? Just kill them if you don't want them reviving.

[Mr Kevin 329]

Just now, McDili said:

You do realize that Medics lose their immunity in red zones? Just kill them if you don't want them reviving.

For civs

[Deimos 160]

I don't think they should add rules to medic regarding cartels. They should add game mechanics that prevent these "never ending fights".

Add an ability to execute a dead player so they can't get revived.

Add a timer so you can't get revived 5 times in 10 mins. For example once you have been revived there is a 10 minute timer that prevents them from being revived again

[Dustin87 864]

This is literally cancer. All we do is fight cops, we never fight rebels. Now i get to fight more cops when im trying to fight rebels? I get it, cops are salty they dont get to come fight cartels but cartels are made for rebels. Get over it...

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Mr Kevin said:

For civs

APD have an easy option as well.

 

According to R&R rules:

  If a medic has arrived at the rebel outpost to revive a civilian and it becomes apparent that APD is conducting a rebel raid the medic must clear the area and contact APD to ascertain whether or not responding officers would like R&R assistance during their engagement.

 

and also:

1. 2. If APD have instructed you not to enter the area you may not do so.

                                                              1.      APD must be within the area to instruct said Responder not to enter.

 

The only complicated part is if they are a hostage. That's a different issue entirely. Right now if I want to taze a medic helping rebels I have to ask if they're a hostage. If they don't reply, we assume they are taken hostage, and then we have to send another message threatening to taze them. That just adds complication for literally no reason. It outta just be leave or be tazed, and then we taze them. Same thing happens either way so it really makes no difference to us if they're a hostage or not.

Further, if they keep assisting rebels after two tazes we outta be able to lethal them too. But I'm rambling about an issue off topic to the thread.

 

I also agree with a 10 minute timer to after being revived. I don't agree with execution though, everybody will execute everybody. 10 minute timer outta be sufficient enough imo.

[Talindor 872]

I can only see a Cartel raid happening when in pursuit of a successful gung-ho happy band of rebels coming back after successfully breaking out a wanted criminal and or pillaged gold from fed.

 Cartel raids hardly ever happen and if you think about it, the one issuing the raid truly is pursuing the rebels as they retreat there tbh.

 It's not an everyday thing that happens.

Its risky business entering Cartel apd vs civ. And if the rebels play it right, have the man power, guns, etc...Can be a real bad day for the Apd. And if they choose to spend a larger number of their resources to continue the raid wave after wave after wave. It will hurt said Sgt. + and units for a little bit, (money-wise). So it would be hard for that particular higher up to do anything else with the tools purchased.

I can see this argument happen if Cartel raids was consistent and happens literally every single day however, but if you think about it, I guarantee 9 out of 10 times it was a pursuit of a team of rebels that successfully pulled off a heist. 

 On another note, said rebels go to rebel Outpost anyways to anticipate an encounter with the APD, most cases. Not cartels, no point, there are no vehicle spawn points, no garages there. So the only other reason if it's not to pursue rebels is to catch rebels cappin it off guard, if this is the case then it would be a Sgt+ and team/raid/patrol. Because it would be perceived more as a patrol then anything else.

[Morgald 13]

I think medics should be able to enter cartels only if a revive was requested there and only if a revive was requested. Medics enter at there own risk.

[Bubbaloo - Reusable P Cup 2934]

Only issue here that not all sAPD are going to handle "raids" the same way. I for one do not go into a rebel just because I get a text from civs taunting me.  I am all for probable cause. The way I've always seen it has been when a fed has finished and the rebels head to Athira rebel. We receive a text and then we organize the rebel raid. Of course this is just one scenario. 

You will NOT see me raid a cartel just because. I will use the exact same approach as when doing a rebel raid. As @talindor mentioned. Cartels have nothing to give an advantage to rebels. I doubt rebels will purposely bait us there knowing we can come back wave after wave to try and take them down with no particular gain for them. 

I am all for doing cartel/rebel raids but with the appropriate probable cause. If you as CIVS get yourself in a situation that leads us to a cartel/rebel raid then you asked for it. On the contrary I am not going to go in just because, enjoy your killing spree . 

[Talindor 872]

16 minutes ago, Bubbaloo said:

Only issue here that not all sAPD are going to handle "raids" the same way. I for one do not go into a rebel just because I get a text from civs taunting me.  I am all for probable cause. The way I've always seen it has been when a fed has finished and the rebels head to Athira rebel. We receive a text and then we organize the rebel raid. Of course this is just one scenario. 

You will NOT see me raid a cartel just because. I will use the exact same approach as when doing a rebel raid. As @talindor mentioned. Cartels have nothing to give an advantage to rebels. I doubt rebels will purposely bait us there knowing we can come back wave after wave to try and take them down with no particular gain for them. 

I am all for doing cartel/rebel raids but with the appropriate probable cause. If you as CIVS get yourself in a situation that leads us to a cartel/rebel raid then you asked for it. On the contrary I am not going to go in just because, enjoy your killing spree . 

@Bubbaloo has made my point in case in a sense, as I believe along side him the majority of Sgt and higher would only enter Cartel with proable cause. In reality if you think about it, there is no other probable cause to enter Cartel with the points I made earlier other then to chasing a suspect in that zone. That just means that instead of the initial Po/deputy one unit going in on pursuit. You have a Sgt + squad going in for pursuit. The only difference is the APD head count got bigger and it turned into a raid. The only other cause of entering Cartel in my mind would be, passing by Cartel as po+  (why you patrol around that far?), and seeing wanted suspect's capping it and report back to high ranking officials to tactically move in to engage.

[Bubbaloo - Reusable P Cup 2934]

2 minutes ago, talindor said:

@Bubbaloo has made my point in case in a sense, as I believe along side him the majority of Sgt and higher would only enter Cartel with proable cause. In reality if you think about it, there is no other probable cause to enter Cartel with the points I made earlier other then to chasing a suspect in that zone. That just means that instead of the initial Po/deputy one unit going in on pursuit. You have a Sgt + squad going in for pursuit. The only difference is the APD head count got bigger and it turned into a raid. The only other cause of entering Cartel in my mind would be, passing by Cartel as po+  (why you patrol around that far?), and seeing wanted suspect's capping it and report back to high ranking officials to tactically move in to engage.

Well. That is a gray area right there.  I do not go close to rebels or cartels just because. It is rare you'll find me near there unless I was chasing someone.  So that scenario of an officer just passing by a cartel shouldn't happen because in a sense it would be "patrolling" the area.  

That's exactly what patrolling is.  You go into the area or while close to the area you see someone in, you go and intercept. Unless they officially implement something along the lines of " When a cartel is captured you can do a raid " then closely patrolling the cartel/rebel areas should NOT happen. 

[Talindor 872]

6 minutes ago, Bubbaloo said:

Well. That is a gray area right there.  I do not go close to rebels or cartels just because. It is rare you'll find me near there unless I was chasing someone.  So that scenario of an officer just passing by a cartel shouldn't happen because in a sense it would be "patrolling" the area.  

That's exactly what patrolling is.  You go into the area or while close to the area you see someone in, you go and intercept. Unless they officially implement something along the lines of " When a cartel is captured you can do a raid " then closely patrolling the cartel/rebel areas should NOT happen. 

I know, I'm simply trying to rule out any other possible ways apd would ever consider a cartel raid on mere probable cause. Doesn't make sense other then the pursuit of said suspect coming back after an event such as jail or other. If there is no other probable  cause then that, why implement a rule enabling a cartel raid? There's no other point. Because we already have a rule enabling apd to enter Cartel in pursuit of suspect entering whether the Apd force at the time is one unit or several.  

[Linka 2942]

Cops in cartels remind me of zombies in dayZ. 

[Corporal Moob 3316]

10 hours ago, Rusty said:

And thats why you're blacklisted fam.

Not blacklisted*