The State of Federal Events, As Seen From a Jr. APD Member

[thompp 50]

Hello, My name is Thompp. I am a Jr. APD Patrol Officer. I am currently writing this in school, in the middle of my classes. You may have already heard of me from the APD forums because of me complaining about the state of Federal Events and how it’s unfair towards the APD. However, after input from so many sides, including Sr. APD, other Jr. APD, and CIVs participating in the federal events, I decided to take a fresh look at the state of federal events, and that started with data collection. I took a month to pile up every federal event that I personally have participated in, and after looking at it all, as well as playing the federal events myself, I have come up with several conclusions and suggestions.

Before I begin, here are some disclaimers that I want everyone to know:
1. This is not meant to be a forum post about blaming people or factions. This is only a review of the state of Federal Events as seen by a Jr. APD member, and my input about what we can do to make it better for everybody.
2. Being as it is a somewhat biased collection of data (with only my participation being the reason for the data being in the spreadsheet), this is obviously not what it might look like to other people.
3. After arguing in the APD forums, I realize that we have many different opinions about federal events, as well as different experiences. So this is not meant to put down other people’s opinions, but rather give my own opinion and insight.
4. I have reflected and see that federal events are not only unfair for Jr. APD, but also for CIVs going against Sr. APD.
5. Special thanks to @ xsmitherz for his help in formatting the spreadsheet, and @ SPBojo for his insight into what the Civilian side looks like when fighting federal events, as well as many others for their strongly-written opinions.
6. Remember that we are all humans behind the screen. I genuinely want to see federal events changed to be more fair for both the APD and the CIVs participating in it. I want us to all have fun with federal events. It shouldn’t be a punishment to fight these federal events, but rather something we want to look forward to.
7. This might look like I'm yapping to most of you guys, but this is truly what I feel and what most Jr. APD feels about federal events.
8. In the end, this is all a game. If the game is frustrating, it’s completely okay to take a step back and relax.
9. Here's the spreadsheet for everyone to view https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b4mRgCor2VFw1QxEcVcvOyCe1W3PhPabq6VmRTlnt6w/edit?resourcekey#gid=1645404173

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When I was a deputy about 5 months ago, I had my first federal event and genuinely enjoyed it. Not only was it fair on both sides with nearly equal numbers of people, but also it wasn’t too cancerous for either side fighting and it wasn’t some deadbrain wave and die, wave and die type event. Recently however, I’ve noticed that this attitude towards federal events had changed. Not only for me, but for many other Jr. APD and Civs. Now, it wasn’t fun, but rather egregious and annoying to play. When Jr. APD watched as the popup for federal events showed, instead of being ecstatic, they would rather log off or groan. It was like watching a bunch of children after telling them “It’s bedtime”. For Civilians, I am sure this is the same feeling when Sr. APD begins mass-armor waves. 

Curiously, I wondered why such a change had occurred. Why were Jr. APD being punished for just playing the game? We don’t log in just to be tortured. We want to have fun. That is why I began talking to different sides and also collecting data, and looking at the APD handbook and server rules. I came to the conclusion that it was due to both sides overreacting, and seeking “revenge” upon each other, and Jr. APD being caught in the crossfire. Sr. APD began mass-pulling armor waves, Civs started running in large groups, which in turn made even more armor waves, which in turn forced Civs to use RPGs and Zafirs and other weaponry. Now, Civs are at the limit of how much they can keep pulling, whilst Sr. APD can still continue to use more weaponry. (As seen in recent blackwater events, where APD has started winning more than before). This ramp up in the level of weapons used has caused a disruption in the balance of power, and Jr. APD was forced to just sit there and endure the everlasting torture. 

So what exactly can we do, both as APD and as Civs, to ensure that the federal events we fight are fair, fun, and doesn’t leave anyone wanting to die in the end? As it stands, the only group that is unable to scale up to these increased levels of cancer are Jr. APD. This leaves many Jr. APD wondering what they are useful for in federal events, besides running in to die, baiting for Sr. APD, and trying to defuse the bomb. Of course, there are moments where Jr. APD shines, however these moments are few to none. I propose we add some rank in between Patrol Officer and Corporal, where they are able to use lethals in federal events, and ONLY federal events, and of course with very strict requirements. The only people who could obtain this rank are those with 100+ hours in APD, 20+ days Time in Grade, and are trusted within the APD community. 

For Sr. APD, I propose we add some rule changes that restricts how much armor is allowed per wave, depending on the amount of civs participating in these events. For example, 2 armored vehicles per every 4 civs. (ex. 8 armored vehicles when fighting 16 civs). Not only will this limit how much money Sr. APD will be forced to lose (as I know that Sr. APD doesn’t like pulling armor for this reason), but also it will decrease the amount of weapons used by Civs and reduce the amount of cancer occurring in the federal events at this moment, which in turn will reduce the cross-fire that Jr. APD has to deal with. I also propose we add rules regulating waves, and only having certain things after a certain amount of waves. (Ex. After the 3rd wave, armor can be pulled. After the 5th, lethals can be loaded for Jr APD.)

For proportionality, I propose we add new rules that regulate how many Civs / APD can participate in the federal events, depending on Civs / APD size. For example, we could have 1.5 APD per every 1 Civ. This could lead to the problem of Sr. APD forcing Jr. APD to leave so that they can replace them, but this could be fixed by enforcing a minimum amount of Jr. APD that must be in the federal event.

All in all, I believe that federal events should be fun to fight. It shouldn’t be some torture-fest or some punishment for Jr. APD. I genuinely enjoy playing APD and I want that feeling to be the same for everyone else, especially after federal events. There’s no point in playing a game that will just make you frustrated, after all. With Rexo in charge of the APD now, I believe that we can work together to make changes that benefit us all, and allow federal events to enter a new stage of strategy and excitement. 

TLDR: Federal events are cancerous for everyone, please come together to fix it.
 

[SPBojo 6863]

Wild how even Jr APD sees a problem in what you deem proportionate @ Rexo  you fuck.

 

Well written post Mr. Thomp.

[Arven 39]

I’m a fellow Jr. APD officer and I mostly agree with this. Everytime i’m playing and see a fed or bw it makes me want to log off. They’re only fun or winnable when Sr. APD mass logs and spams armor. There’s been numerous feds i’ve participated in with just Jr. APD and we get slaughtered. I think the idea of having a rank in between PO and Corp with the only difference being access to lethals during federal events is smart. Now obviously not everyone should receive this rank but it’d be better than having the occasional 1 or 2 corporals during an all Jr. fed. 

[Noble 1830]

Buffing runs as discussed here would result in a better more diverse experience for APD. If civs have more incentives to do runs then there can be bigger more fun fights at dealers/Processors/ and gathering locations. 

 

[Clashingtin 1082]

1 hour ago, Arven said:

I’m a fellow Jr. APD officer and I mostly agree with this. Everytime i’m playing and see a fed or bw it makes me want to log off. They’re only fun or winnable when Sr. APD mass logs and spams armor. There’s been numerous feds i’ve participated in with just Jr. APD and we get slaughtered. I think the idea of having a rank in between PO and Corp with the only difference being access to lethals during federal events is smart. Now obviously not everyone should receive this rank but it’d be better than having the occasional 1 or 2 corporals during an all Jr. fed. 

The jump from po to corporal is pretty big having access to lethals and better weapons even vehicles. Having another rank in between just wouldn’t be an option. Pushing for better weapons for federal events and even using t3 is also hard as you guys now have the CMR which is fucking nuts 

[SPBojo 6863]

Just now, Clashingtin said:

as you guys now have the CMR which is fucking nuts 

We can (and should) change that  

[Big Boss Fredo 1186]

I’m tired of federal events being spammed, it ruins my roleplay experience when I get a cop tased and he says “YOU CANT ROB ME IM RESPONDING TO A FED” 

[SPBojo 6863]

3 minutes ago, Noble said:

Buffing runs as discussed here would result in a better more diverse experience for APD. If civs have more incentives to do runs then there can be bigger more fun fights at dealers/Processors/ and gathering locations. 

 

Would be all fun and games until sAPD then starts patrolling in ghawks everywhere again due to "high gang activity" and "HVT Vehicles" doing runs ^-^

[billdroid 894]

im hoping to find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow too

[JoeL 1291]

1 hour ago, thomp62 said:

I propose we add some rank in between Patrol Officer and Corporal, where they are able to use lethals in federal events, and ONLY federal events

This is practically already a thing because for about 80% of your Data there was a Active Senior on who could and usually would authorize deemed necessary. I get there still is the remaining time where a Active senior doesn't log on, but rare occasion. 

1 hour ago, thomp62 said:

After the 5th, lethals can be loaded for Jr APD.)

This also is practically already a thing, because a corporal cannot authorize JR's lethal's unless their are 10 or less on with 10 minutes left on bomb and 9/10 times there will be more than 5 waves under our belt by then. Not to mention a Active Senior is not going to authorize JR's lethals until this point anyway unless the situation is blown way out of Proportion civ sided.

I totally agree with you and I am all for JR's having a better experience. I myself am not a Senior and see where you're coming from completely, but unfortunately I don't think your suggestions listed about the lethal's are going to resolve the issue at hand, and it needs to be investigated deeper as a community on ways we can resolve this. Which is exactly the purpose of this post so +1 for bringing the community together to reflect.

 

[Noble 1830]

6 minutes ago, SPBojo said:

Would be all fun and games until sAPD then starts patrolling in ghawks everywhere again due to "high gang activity" and "HVT Vehicles" doing runs ^-^

Then just keep them in check, or hell if there are big enough runs go for it

[Orbit 295]

TLDR; half the changes benefit civs the other half the APD, only changes that would pass are the civ sided, and this spreadsheet is no where near the full list, I would ask that @ SPBojo @ Zahzi  post the stats from march regarding the entire server.

[Zahzi 3014]

26 minutes ago, Orbit said:

TLDR; half the changes benefit civs the other half the APD, only changes that would pass are the civ sided, and this spreadsheet is no where near the full list, I would ask that @ SPBojo @ Zahzi  post the stats from march regarding the entire server.

Can't wait for misinterpretation & cancer, enjoy!

* combined rate is detonation rate (detonated/started) * sell rate (sold/spawned) and used as the primary measure of "win rate", we typically aim to target ~37.5%ish (assuming attempt volume is adequate, along with a few other factors).

[SPBojo 6863]

22 minutes ago, Orbit said:

TLDR; half the changes benefit civs the other half the APD, only changes that would pass are the civ sided, and this spreadsheet is no where near the full list, I would ask that @ SPBojo @ Zahzi  post the stats from march regarding the entire server.

See Zahzi's reply and as he stated, cant wait for misinterpretation & cancer

 

As for "only civ sided things would pass", you can thank your local sAPD for cancering yall and close to never suggesting any buffs to junior APD outside of "nuclear" things that would completely ruin balance in all way shapes or forms ^-^

[Orbit 295]

Thank you @ Zahzi . When I was an active member of Aegis during the summer of 2023 so May through July we started increasing the amount of federal events done. The static rate dropped as everyone spaced out and burned out overtime; you can see the steady increase from late 2023 to early 2024 as we steadily increase in the combined rate. When I was in Federal Civ Council we had a dollar amount of gold sold and the exact amount of bombs blown etc on a spreadsheet shared each month. Id be curious to see the current dollar amounts and stats etc.

As for the entire countering from the APD, I will speak as a heavy head in the Federal events from the APD side currently. The skill level between the solid 24 aegis members who played in the last month and the entire JAPD is so different. I'd say a rough average of more then 50% of the JAPD have never done a Blackwater or Fed on the Civ Side; and if some have they most likely failed. We cannot change the knowledge of the APD and what they soak in is based on what they deal with. At the end of the day me and majority of the APD as a whole want to WIN. That's the goal in the APD against the civs. In order to win we have to be able to push and make progress; if the JAPD does not understand how to push it makes it impossible to fight. Armor is necessary to push when the gear is at the level it is, the liquid money Aegis has backing them, and once again the skill gap. Lethals are needed when situations are outnumbered and progress is not made. Medics increase the productivity of the Civs and decrease progress from the APD; this is also a reason in which lethals are authed more often. 
I can assure from the seniors I speak to daily they have no intentions on making the fight aids; only to balance the fight at hand. 

Federal events are not meant to be easy, back in 2020 the APD was a hammer on nails, they would beat down every event, the win rate was very low, and the fights were tough. In no way should it be changed from then to now, only that civs have grown to learn new strats and abuse new features. The APD and the win rate recently is a reflection of overall handling of a whole situation and NOT select APD members. 

At the end of the day I do not have the privilege to sit in on the sAPD round table and I'm genuinely curious as into what happens during them in regards to the stats and how they approach handling future events. I believe the force that is pushed is beyond balanced and at the end of the day its not always going to be black and white. Things happen and every situation is different.    
 

[monster 5665]

3 minutes ago, Orbit said:

I can assure from the seniors I speak to daily they have no intentions on making the fight aids; only to balance the fight at hand. 

right so 7 ghosthawks a wave is "balancing" the fight and not making it unbearably aids for civs?

[Noble 1830]

hi monster : >

 

[monster 5665]

Just now, Noble said:

hi monster : >

 

hey :3

[Orbit 295]

1 minute ago, monster said:

right so 7 ghosthawks a wave is "balancing" the fight and not making it unbearably aids for civs?

There was 14 titans on the floor in rebel last night when we raided after you have titaned 2 planes, three hawks, and were still attempting to shoot down more. We brought three hawks, one to fight the hawk you had, and two for the 4 titans you had on ground. Blackwaters are not meant to be easy and with the gear you had three hawks in the air after leaving BW and being multiple hawks lost seems plenty fair. You also had a rebel with NO NLR and respawns. 

24 minutes ago, SPBojo said:

As for "only civ sided things would pass", you can thank your local sAPD for cancering yall and close to never suggesting any buffs to junior APD outside of "nuclear" things that would completely ruin balance in all way shapes or forms ^-^

Again its all hidden info, nothing they propose is public, and we are not sitting in on meetings regarding it.

[SPBojo 6863]

4 minutes ago, Orbit said:

Again its all hidden info, nothing they propose is public, and we are not sitting in on meetings regarding it.

Everything they actually propose to change and bring to roundtables is not hidden

[Orbit 295]

1 minute ago, SPBojo said:

Everything they actually propose to change and bring to roundtables is not hidden

There has not been a roundtable post for three months. I'm talking recently due to the active state of events. 

Speaking on the last roundtable posted, the changes regarding feds were directly related to FTO's including .9mm sups and .45mm sups at feds..

[ben- 520]

6 minutes ago, Orbit said:

There was 14 titans on the floor in rebel last night when we raided after you have titaned 2 planes, three hawks, and were still attempting to shoot down more. We brought three hawks, one to fight the hawk you had, and two for the 4 titans you had on ground. Blackwaters are not meant to be easy and with the gear you had three hawks in the air after leaving BW and being multiple hawks lost seems plenty fair. You also had a rebel with NO NLR and respawns. 

I think you forget we have to buy gear in response to what you bring to us, we've had sAPD members tell us they want to make it impossible for us which in turn means we need to start using RPGs + Zafs + Granit T5 every single loadout. The argument stems a lot deeper than just oh well Aegis win. If the normal response (Aegis are the only current ppl who do feds and BWs a lot) is bringing this amount of air vehicles and armour what happens to other gangs like TP who dont usually carry this amount of gear? Is it just going to happen and they have to accept it?

[SPBojo 6863]

1 minute ago, Orbit said:

There has not been a roundtable post for three months. I'm talking recently due to the active state of events. 

I mean, proportionality has been a issue for ages, even back 3 months ago there was rampant federal events being done and yet no suggested changes from sAPD.

November, December + January fed stats:
  (Planted - Defused - Bomb Blown)

[Orbit 295]

1 minute ago, ben- said:

I think you forget we have to buy gear in response to what you bring to us, we've had sAPD members tell us they want to make it impossible for us which in turn means we need to start using RPGs + Zafs + Granit T5 every single loadout. The argument stems a lot deeper than just oh well Aegis win. If the normal response (Aegis are the only current ppl who do feds and BWs a lot) is bringing this amount of air vehicles and armour what happens to other gangs like TP who dont usually carry this amount of gear? Is it just going to happen and they have to accept it?

Whoever the sAPD member was that said this I'm curious about. The less gear you use, the less explosives used, and the less cancer strats abused, all relate to the force responded with, If you had no gear and it was possible to slam without 150 round belts slammed into hatchbacks with zafs then there would be hardly any reason to pull armor to run around and do crazy shit. Armor would then be used halfway through to attempt a defuse like its always been used for. The response is all based on the skill, gear, and numbers. I cannont speak for those calling the shots because thats not me.

3 minutes ago, SPBojo said:

I mean, proportionality has been a issue for ages, even back 3 months ago there was rampant federal events being done and yet no suggested changes from sAPD.

 

Not much I can do as a JAPD member, if they let me sit in and propose, then they would have to let everyone.

[thompp 50]

Even if my proposed solutions are not viable, I’m hoping that this post will spark debate and more community ideas for how to make feds fairer for all sides.