Gang Shed Logs

[Space Ranger 160]

Gang shed logs should be openly accessible on the forums or a website by high ranking gang members. With a big gang come snakes and nobody likes snakes. So our main rule in NOBLE is not stealing and lately we have had a problem with snakes and tracking them down and removing them is hard because we don’t know who’s been accessing our gang shed. I know some people might say just not to promote them but we want our members to make money easily that way they can have fun and enjoy the server. But they can’t make money if everything is getting stolen out of the shed. 

[Boomer Miguel 8]

I'd imagine the devs could use a materialized view that is materialized once a day (at off-peak hours) and then filter it with a GangId via stored procedure. That would mitigate the processing time and locking risk of having something in-game/on-demand.

Edited January 28, 2020 by septober1

[Noahhh! 3607]

I actually talked to @Zahzi about this. For some certain reason, this idea can't really happen. It can't even be done if it was part of an Olympus web page that required a certain rank in the gang to log in. That's what I heard last, but it's possible that something could change in the future, it's just not probable.

Nevertheless, adding a log/history of the physical and virtual inventory of a gang shed on a gang sign-in-required web page would be a huge quality of life feature. I know it would benefit a lot of gangs out there. That being said, it should be added if possible. 

[Boomer Miguel 8]

I'm guessing its verification between webapp (forums) and the db's on the game servers. Which I get.

A materialized view would still great speed up an in-game portal requiring only modification to the UI elements for say, the Y menu, and a copy of the ledger page (to allow scrolling). I'm not even sure it's something that would need to be rank-restricted (similar to ledger).

But I get it's not the same priority as new content.

Edited January 28, 2020 by septober1

[ThatNerdyGuy 5916]

New idea, don't give gangshed keys to people you can't trust.

 

As for the other ideas, the in game one would be too taxing on the server. As for a website, that seems like a bit much to make sure someone isn't taking ingredients out of your shed.

[Noahhh! 3607]

22 minutes ago, ThatNerdyGuy said:

New idea, don't give gangshed keys to people you can't trust.

 

As for the other ideas, the in game one would be too taxing on the server. As for a website, that seems like a bit much to make sure someone isn't taking ingredients out of your shed.

I understand where your'e coming from, but the "trust" system only provides so much defense. For example, you cant trust everyone in the server to follow rules and not cheat 100% of the time, you need administrators who have access to info. We could go back and forth on those kind of rules and procedures for a while, but that's not super relevant to my request though.

My point is that gangs other than just Noble would benefit from this feature. There are gangs other than Noble that have gangsheds and could use some sort of website logs to help administrate their gangs. Like I said before, it just seems like a quality of life thing to me.

Yeah, adding any sort of extra logs or ledgers in-game could really decrease performance for everyone. This idea is NOT worth hurting every player's performance on the server, that goes without saying.

This is why I bring up the idea of a page on the stats-site to access gang-admin information like this. Zahzi has already said that adding a full history of the gang funds ledger on the website wouldn't be that much of a hassle, so the question is: how different is the process of adding gangshed inventory logs? I guess the biggest difference is that players don't already have access to any inventory logs. We have already have a short ledger of the gang funds logs, but we've never had access to any logs for inventory. Maybe transferring information from logs usually only accessible by staff to a web page raises certain issues or bad possibilities; I'm not really informed enough to know about that though. Assuming it can all work out right though, I don't see why we don't implement something like that: especially if we plan on implementing that sign-in web page already for the funds ledger.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Noahhh!

[FalseBit 279]

25 minutes ago, ThatNerdyGuy said:

As for a website, that seems like a bit much to make sure someone isn't taking ingredients out of your shed.

Says the career cop. 

The ability to audit gang shed inventory would be valuable to gang leaders. No to in-game, but website sure. Just need a log of maybe the last 100 lines, and gets pulled via DB query onto the gang stats page just like the other stats. Updates every 60min or longer.  It's really not that complicated or any more taxing on the server than the stats page already is.

[Boomer Miguel 8]

If the building inventory model is a single db table for all buildings, then such a query would cause locking and timeout stuff. This would happen whether it's happening by the forums or the game client--I think that's Nerdy's point.

@Noahhh! think about an Excel sheet that can only be viewed when nobody is editing it. If you had one sheet for every housing transaction (ie accessing T, putting shit in, taking stuff out), everyone else would need to wait until that command is done. Gang banks are probably on their own "sheet" and not nearly as frequently accessesd. This is entirely guessing on my part, but probably why the discrepancy exists between inventory transactions and banks.

My point is that if you materialize a view of that table on a periodic basis (such as after a hard restart once a day), then queries against the view would not cause locking/time-out inventory fetches for in-game players. It would consume processor resources like any other query and add disk space duplicating information. Some people look really negatively on that.

But, to play devil's advocate, putting in a once-a-day view would create the precedent that people can see building transactions and then staff would get bugged about "WHY ISNT MY SHIT SHOWING UP IN THE LEDGER I PUT IT IN 30S AGO WTFBBQ!" so I get not wanting to do that, either.

Edited January 28, 2020 by septober1
added a thing for Noah

[Noahhh! 3607]

12 minutes ago, septober1 said:

If the building inventory model is a single db table for all buildings, then such a query would cause locking and timeout stuff. This would happen whether it's happening by the forums or the game client--I think that's Nerdy's point.

@Noahhh! think about an Excel sheet that can only be viewed when nobody is editing it. If you had one sheet for every housing transaction (ie accessing T, putting shit in, taking stuff out), everyone else would need to wait until that command is done. Gang banks are probably on their own "sheet" and not nearly as frequently accessesd. This is entirely guessing on my part, but probably why the discrepancy exists between inventory transactions and banks.

My point is that if you materialize a view of that table on a periodic basis (such as after a hard restart once a day), then queries against the view would not cause locking/time-out inventory fetches for in-game players. It would consume processor resources like any other query and add disk space duplicating information. Some people look really negatively on that.

But, to play devil's advocate, putting in a once-a-day view would create the precedent that people can see building transactions and then staff would get bugged about "WHY ISNT MY SHIT SHOWING UP IN THE LEDGER I PUT IT IN 30S AGO WTFBBQ!" so I get not wanting to do that, either.

Yeah, that makes a little bit of sense. I wouldn't be opposed to a once-a-day updated log though.

[DeadPool 4375]

@Noahhh! Trust me its not gonna happen. 
The Amount of times ive brought this up. You are beating more than a dead horse. 

Best way is to have google docs where gang members input how much goes in and out. If something is wrong you ask around. Olympus Dev team is not gang security when gang trust falls through

[Zahzi 3030]

59 minutes ago, Noahhh! said:

I actually talked to @Zahzi about this. For some certain reason, this idea can't really happen. It can't even be done if it was part of an Olympus web page that required a certain rank in the gang to log in. That's what I heard last, but it's possible that something could change in the future, it's just not probable.

49 minutes ago, septober1 said:

'm guessing its verification between webapp (forums) and the db's on the game servers. Which I get.

A materialized view would still great speed up an in-game portal requiring only modification to the UI elements for say, the Y menu, and a copy of the ledger page (to allow scrolling). I'm not even sure it's something that would need to be rank-restricted (similar to ledger).

The verification is the easy bit actually. I'm already working on a stats page rework that requires steam login to show houses, gang bank ledger, etc. Currently, the ledger is rank restricted at the request of civ council, but it could probably be available to all ranks :shrug: 

The reason this has been declined in the past is that the frequency of items being transacted with the gang shed would result in a server performance hit if all these interactions had to be stored in the database.

23 minutes ago, Eased said:

Says the career cop. 

The ability to audit gang shed inventory would be valuable to gang leaders. No to in-game, but website sure. Just need a log of maybe the last 100 lines, and gets pulled via DB query onto the gang stats page just like the other stats. Updates every 60min or longer.  It's really not that complicated or any more taxing on the server than the stats page already is.

If you just want the current state of the shed, then that's easy enough to display. The problem is attributing item transactions to players given that this isn't currently stored in the database. he bottleneck is the Arma server, not the database.

15 minutes ago, septober1 said:

If the building inventory model is a single db table for all buildings, then such a query would cause locking and timeout stuff. This would happen whether it's happening by the forums or the game client--I think that's Nerdy's point.

My point is that if you materialize a view of that table on a periodic basis (such as after a hard restart once a day), then queries against the view would not cause locking/time-out inventory fetches for in-game players. It would consume processor resources akin to a query and add disk space duplicating information. Some people look really negatively on that.

But, to play devil's advocate, putting in a once-a-day view would create the precedent that people can see building transactions and then staff would get bugged about "WHY ISNT MY SHIT SHOWING UP IN THE LEDGER I PUT IT IN 30S AGO WTFBBQ!" so I get not wanting to do that, either.

The concern here isn't database performance or anything on the db/web end of things, that's easy enough to optimize & cache. The more queries we end up having to make in game, the more laggy things will end up feeling.

4 minutes ago, DeadPool said:

@Noahhh! Trust me its not gonna happen. 

I suppose it probably would be possible to parse and import logs into a DB table and cut out the Arma portion though. It wouldn't be the most ideal solution, but could be better than nothing I guess.

[Noahhh! 3607]

14 minutes ago, DeadPool said:

@Noahhh! Trust me its not gonna happen. 
The Amount of times ive brought this up. You are beating more than a dead horse. 

Best way is to have google docs where gang members input how much goes in and out. If something is wrong you ask around. Olympus Dev team is not gang security when gang trust falls through

Yeah, I don't expect Olympus staff to administrate any gangs interior matters, that's why I suggest this. The development time is all they have to worry about, then we take it from there (assuming everything performance-wise works correctly).

10 minutes ago, Zahzi said:

Currently, the ledger is rank restricted at the request of civ council, but it could probably be available to all ranks :shrug: 

I suggest rank 3+, maybe even 2+. I think 4+ is kinda dumb IMO.

[Zahzi 3030]

1 minute ago, Noahhh! said:

I suggest rank 3+, maybe even 2+. I think 4+ is kinda dumb IMO.

It's currently at 3

[Noahhh! 3607]

4 minutes ago, Zahzi said:

It's currently at 3

Yeah, that seems good to me.

Wait, is this already on the stats page or just in progress? I can't find it if it's already implemented. lol

[Zahzi 3030]

Just now, Noahhh! said:

Yeah, that seems good to me.

Wait, is this already on the stats page or just in progress? I can't find it if it's already implemented. lol

Hasn't been released yet, other parts of the rewrite are still in progress.

[Noahhh! 3607]

6 minutes ago, Zahzi said:

Hasn't been released yet, other parts of the rewrite are still in progress.

I see. That's awesome though. I think this will be a big plus for a lot of gangs. I know it's going to help us a lot.

Stay on that Olympus Owner grind boss carrot boy

Edited January 28, 2020 by Noahhh!

[Space Ranger 160]

All this is great, love the work zahzi your doing great 

[ThatNerdyGuy 5916]

@Noahhh!

My concern is server server performance and the amount of time it would take for this to he done. Not to mention a system of using additional log in to view the system. Personally I think that's too much to do just to make sure Timmy didnt lut back the ingredients he used to process.

@Eased

I've forgotten more about civilian than you will ever know. Not like I mained civilian during the peak time of the server to play civilian or anything.

Aside from that I just don't think it's worth the development time and effort to again, monitor what happens with your shed. I feel this would be something used seldomly at best after it's out for a little.

[Deluxe 34]

Here's an idea - be able to section off portions of the gang shed to different people within the gang. Instead of one big shared inventory have it as a bunch of separate houses that people can share keys if they wish to have their portion accessible to someone else. But of course I am sure this is impossible for whatever reason just like the rest of my ideas. 

[Lex yo 373]

Just don’t mass recruit. 

[johnny goose 3338]

for whoever says logs cant be pulled from gang sheds. I know for a fact staff can pull logs for a specific gangs shed. It shouldnt really be that hard especially if the past 24 hour logs are pulled at midnight every night and uploaded to the website.

[Gazz 155]

6 hours ago, Yeetus Deletus said:

Gang shed logs should be openly accessible on the forums or a website by high ranking gang members. With a big gang come snakes and nobody likes snakes. So our main rule in NOBLE is not stealing and lately we have had a problem with snakes and tracking them down and removing them is hard because we don’t know who’s been accessing our gang shed. I know some people might say just not to promote them but we want our members to make money easily that way they can have fun and enjoy the server. But they can’t make money if everything is getting stolen out of the shed. 

[Noahhh! 3607]

3 hours ago, Deluxe said:

Here's an idea - be able to section off portions of the gang shed to different people within the gang. Instead of one big shared inventory have it as a bunch of separate houses that people can share keys if they wish to have their portion accessible to someone else. But of course I am sure this is impossible for whatever reason just like the rest of my ideas. 

I think something like this would hinder performance as-well. 

2 hours ago, Strafe said:

for whoever says logs cant be pulled from gang sheds. I know for a fact staff can pull logs for a specific gangs shed. It shouldnt really be that hard especially if the past 24 hour logs are pulled at midnight every night and uploaded to the website.

My thoughts exactly.

3 hours ago, Lex yo said:

Just don’t mass recruit. 

fUcK tHe nObLe zErG

[johnny goose 3338]

2 hours ago, Noahhh! said:

My thoughts exactly.

 

dont agree with me your a noble rat

[Noahhh! 3607]

2 hours ago, Strafe said:

 

dont agree with me your a noble rat

Don't agree with me, you're a Noble rat.*