House Raiding Debate

[YayObamacare 78]

7 minutes ago, TheCmdrRex said:

I think that the part of runs that are more broken is the consistent raiding of red zones by cops.

Houses are basically an end point. Once items are in the house then unless you got keys to the house there is no access into the house. Search warrants by Senior APD are the only way to combat the massive storage sizes. 

 This is why it is so easy for Senior APD to raid a house on a civilian that isn’t cautious. 

The thing is, it doesent matter how cautious you are when there is a cop 2km out watching your house with rangefinders. You can never know with certainty that you arent being watched.

[Google 872]

1 minute ago, YayObamacare said:

The thing is, it doesent matter how cautious you are when there is a cop 2km out watching your house with rangefinders. You can never know with certainty that you arent being watched.

Facts

55 minutes ago, Panda said:

Trying to make a constructive arguement with most of you is like trying to take a bull in a china shop. It doesn’t work.

You haven’t offered anything productive here. People have provided plenty of points as to where the issue lies and how it’s to OP, in my opinion and many others it’s very apparent. By saying this you haven’t added anything productive to the argument so don’t complain about trying to make a constructive argument. I also haven’t seen any compromises besides from people on our side wanting it reduced just a little. Instead of us saying we want it gone we thought about the APD and suggested a better way to search houses.

I suggested police must be engaged with the individual to search the house. Let me clarify because some people misread it and assumed I meant a police chase let me clarify:

If police see you interact with your house they cannot raid it when you’re not there, they’re allowed to land attack you and capture you then raid your house in my opinion. But in my experience this has never happened, that’s why I suggest making it a rule. Currently to my experience, and many others, police fly 1km high in the sky or sit 2km out with rangefinders to wait for you to interact with your house and leave then call in a raid.

[YayObamacare 78]

5 minutes ago, Google said:

Facts

You haven’t offered anything productive here. People have provided plenty of points as to where the issue lies and how it’s to OP, in my opinion and many others it’s very apparent. By saying this you haven’t added anything productive to the argument so don’t complain about trying to make a constructive argument. I also haven’t seen any compromises besides from people on our side wanting it reduced just a little. Instead of us saying we want it gone we thought about the APD and suggested a better way to search houses.

 I suggested police must be engaged with the individual to search the house. Let me clarify because some people misread it and assumed I meant a police chase let me clarify:

 If police see you interact with your house they cannot raid it when you’re not there, they’re allowed to land attack you and capture you then raid your house in my opinion. But in my experience this has never happened, that’s why I suggest making it a rule. Currently to my experience, and many others, police fly 1km high in the sky or sit 2km out with rangefinders to wait for you to interact with your house and leave then call in a raid.

Making police required to be engaged with the civilian when they interact with their house would be a good way around this shitfest we have with SAPD camping houses. It would solve the whole problem. There wouldnt be a need for a rule against camping houses and would make house raiding more fair.

google for civ rep

[PoptartRex 3294]

42 minutes ago, YayObamacare said:

The thing is, it doesent matter how cautious you are when there is a cop 2km out watching your house with rangefinders. You can never know with certainty that you arent being watched.

Yeah but going from one extreme to the other leads to problems and more balance issues. Better to find a way around that then to jut completely nerf search warrants to the point where they can only be done once a month

[Kamikaze 1178]

Let me just put this on the table Tree the gang that has the most money on the server, makes the most money, and is still the least searched there is a reason to that. They don't interact if there is cops on simple as that it's the ultimate way to preventing searches.

[PoptartRex 3294]

Just now, Kamikaze said:

Let me just put this on the table Tree the gang that has the most money on the server, makes the most money, and is still the least searched there is a reason to that. They don't interact if there is cops on simple as that it's the ultimate way to preventing searches.

Yeah but I gotta be honest that is like saying the best way to prevent sex is abstinence. It’s true but it’s not really practical. Civilians should still be able to store while cops are on. That shouldn’t be the point the server gets too.

[Richard 595]

1 minute ago, TheCmdrRex said:

Yeah but going from one extreme to the other leads to problems and more balance issues. Better to find a way around that then to jut completely nerf search warrants to the point where they can only be done once a month

 I have put forth a proposal that just by having a bounty or opening a door should not be cause for search. Watching a player leave a red zone or enter a red zone or hide in a house and take shots out of the house are all reasons that a search should be warranted. Bunkering down in a house should warrant it.  Seeing a player pull a gun from house should be warranted.  Storing an illegal vehicle in shed could be warranted.  Pulling a hatchback should not.  Owning a tempest should not. Etc. etc.

[Kamikaze 1178]

Just now, TheCmdrRex said:

Yeah but I gotta be honest that is like saying the best way to prevent sex is abstinence. It’s true but it’s not really practical. Civilians should still be able to store while cops are on. That shouldn’t be the point the server gets too.

I was never in tree but from watching the things they do while im on cop they will sometimes still do runs out of the shed while cops are on and store illegal shit in their houses and just keep solely ingredients in the shed. And as being apart of the people that got bot's shed raided for 23 some million they honestly asked for it. They would come into HQ talking shit about how we couldn't raid their houses nor gangshed, now that we did they are the ones complaining.

[Bloodmoon 2222]

13 minutes ago, Kamikaze said:

Let me just put this on the table Tree the gang that has the most money on the server, makes the most money, and is still the least searched there is a reason to that. They don't interact if there is cops on simple as that it's the ultimate way to preventing searches.

How Tree stops cops from coming south of pyrgos

[Sho 186]

58 minutes ago, Bloodmoon said:

How Tree stops cops from coming south of pyrgos

Honestly, there is plenty of money to be made on S2 at houses but cops don’t want to go there because tree actually fights back. Bots, take notes. 

[MBPslyr 153]

@Sho

[Panda :) 1916]

2 hours ago, KrispyK said:

have you concidered that is why we run out of a house

Yes? that is why i am saying it shouldn't be easier to do it.

[KrispyK 22]

Just now, Panda said:

Yes? that is why i am saying it shouldn't be easier to do it.

then you dont know how to actually fix the problem, have a good day

[Panda :) 1916]

Just now, KrispyK said:

then you dont know how to actually fix the problem, have a good day

Lmao I literally have been here saying that I don't know how to fix the "problem" because their isn't one how hard is it to not interact with your house with a illegal gun or bounty when you know your house gets camped.

[KrispyK 22]

4 minutes ago, Panda said:

Lmao I literally have been here saying that I don't know how to fix the "problem" because their isn't one how hard is it to not interact with your house with a illegal gun or bounty when you know your house gets camped.

the problem is cop meta, the frequency of how much cops check, and the need to run out of a house.
things that can be changed.
* scout planes can only check red zones one, every 30 minutes

*cops will not be allowed to camp houses unless they have followed someone to the house or unless it is in 400m of a DMV

 

*removal of the scout plane all together

* add a cop menu to click a button to show a timer for each redzone globally, so cops can see wihtout having to type it out everytime.

iv seen cops check frogs less than 10 minutes apart with different groups due to it being an annoyance to mark times.

 

there is currently no limit with the scout plane, you can repeatedly check redzones with it.

Edited March 19, 2019 by KrispyK

[Panda :) 1916]

Just now, KrispyK said:

the problem is cop meta, the frequency of how much cops check, and the need to run out of a house.
things that can be changed.
* scout planes can only check red zones one, every 30 minutes

*cops will not be allowed to camp houses unless they have followed someone to the house or unless it is in 400m of a DMV

 

*removal of the scout plane all together

* add a cop menu to click a button to show a timer for each redzone globally, so cops can see wihtout having to type it out everytime.

iv seen cops check frogs less than 10 minutes apart with different groups due to it being an annoyance to mark times.

1. No that is terrible wtf you could wait for the plane to check it wait for him to leave and go back in and finish your run before he could check it again BROKEN.

2. Like I said before if you were to put too many limitations on cops on searching houses people would abuse it and cops would never be able to search houses it is supposed to be balanced not one sided.

3. No like no you can literally shoot down a plane with 1 7.62 bullet.

4. I really don't know what you mean by this but I think you mean add a timer when they can check redzones like that is one of the biggest waste of development time in the world jsut look at the time stamp or ask in group chat.

5. report it. lol.

imo you have to have at least 300 hours on both factions to even understand balance between the 2.

 

[KrispyK 22]

4 minutes ago, Panda said:

1. No that is terrible wtf you could wait for the plane to check it wait for him to leave and go back in and finish your run before he could check it again BROKEN.

2. Like I said before if you were to put too many limitations on cops on searching houses people would abuse it and cops would never be able to search houses it is supposed to be balanced not one sided.

3. No like no you can literally shoot down a plane with 1 7.62 bullet.

4. I really don't know what you mean by this but I think you mean add a timer when they can check redzones like that is one of the biggest waste of development time in the world jsut look at the time stamp or ask in group chat.

5. report it. lol.

imo you have to have at least 300 hours on both factions to even understand balance between the 2.

 

it seems you are braindead or just want the apd to be broken, ok.

the 15 minute between checks has been standard for ever, now you have a plane that is completly broken.

if all those above got changed, people would be more likly to run regular.

i dont think you understand also how much money people invest in houses.

the meta thing isnt part of the making it more for straight runs, i want it changed bc it is against the rules but no one gives a shit because its done by seniors.

there is NO reason for a cop to be camping a house, their job is to arrest criminals and they are wasting their time by camping. they are essentially ALSO hour farming.

if an rnr sat somewhere and refused to revive people they would be demoted.

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by KrispyK

[MBPslyr 153]

House camping is a problem.

[YayObamacare 78]

4 minutes ago, KrispyK said:

 

i dont think you understand also how much money people invest in houses.

 the meta thing isnt part of the making it more for straight runs, i want it changed bc it is against the rules but no one gives a shit because its done by seniors.

there is NO reason for a cop to be camping a house, their job is to arrest criminals and they are wasting their time by camping. they are essentially ALSO hour farming.

if an rnr sat somewhere and refused to revive people they would be demoted.

  

Somebody said it. Everyone keeps dick riding, saying things like "I've never seen SAPD do that, they would never do that, blah blah" And the thing is there is nothing even remotely close to the damage that the SAPD can do to civs that civs can do to the APD as a whole. Civs cant go in and raid 100 mk1 and mar 10 tasers, they gotta do that to cops individually and only when they rarely bring that gear out.

[Cale 556]

On 3/17/2019 at 2:52 PM, Titimus said:

Searching a house can be a big hit to a civilian financially, but to a cop they gain some, but have the time of their life doing it. I don't see why the rules are so lax on searching them, because it's a big deal when it happens. I think the same thing applies to 3-1, in the aspect if you tase a cop and there is another within 50m, 3 people cannot restrain the one downed. How is that even remotely fair?

This happened to me a few days ago when I tazed a corp and he had his PO hide in a fucking house for 5 minutes so we couldn't restrain him then we finally found the PO and killed him and restrained the corp.

[ehKyler 17]

4 hours ago, Mk-1 said:

yo i love it when i open my door with a 15k bounty and lose 15 mill worth shit or access my gang shed with an akm and lose 21 mill of moonshine i was working on all day just because sho has no life @Sho like this

 https://gyazo.com/11ec86206b8631dc5496588e71a0f5ba 

https://gyazo.com/2e07d792b2a90536989616a0cfc9d197

https://gyazo.com/f50936d8763721bbc80905e766186c4f

Edit:niggas really after us

Exactly, which im assuming they werent even initiated on you. This NEEDS to be fixed man,

And a house isn't a little "cubby" or "drawer", Its something that cost's a lot of money (2.2mil) and it shouldn't just be that easy to raid a house. People pay for houses, for their privacy and the fact it can be raided within the snap of a finger is dumb stupid. Houses cost a lot of money for a reason, and the probable cause needs to be changed. Period.

[LULA 2022 - PT 13 490]

6 hours ago, TheCmdrRex said:

Yeah but going from one extreme to the other leads to problems and more balance issues. Better to find a way around that then to jut completely nerf search warrants to the point where they can only be done once a month

How about make search warrants only an option when illegal activity related to the house has been spotted. If a vehicle is tracked eyes on or with a remote device from a redzone to a house OR a rebel walks in with a bounty or gun and actively resisted arrest/stores anything search warrants can be issued.

 

Almost no one has a problem with search warrants, its just that jrs and srs alike are camping houses or sheds and the moment someone with an illegal gun or bounty walks in they wait for them to leave and instantly call in a senior to search.

 

I personally think a system similar to the fed vehicle seizures should be implemented, if an officer can directly link a house to illegal activity through a tracker or surveillance it can be raided. For players if someone who isn't engaged walks into a house and becomes engaged by the police if they actively resist (locking doors, shooting, etc) or store any gear the house can be searched. Search warrants wouldn't die overnight but officer would need to prove connection beyond a reasonable doubt (like is needed for IRL search warrants) or the subject would need to interact with a house while engaged by the police, instead of this bullshit with raids happening after the keyholder disconnects and entire DPs being camped with methods that make knowing your being watched or taking countermeasures almost impossible.

Edited March 20, 2019 by sploding

[LULA 2022 - PT 13 490]

7 hours ago, Google said:

Facts

You haven’t offered anything productive here. People have provided plenty of points as to where the issue lies and how it’s to OP, in my opinion and many others it’s very apparent. By saying this you haven’t added anything productive to the argument so don’t complain about trying to make a constructive argument. I also haven’t seen any compromises besides from people on our side wanting it reduced just a little. Instead of us saying we want it gone we thought about the APD and suggested a better way to search houses.

I suggested police must be engaged with the individual to search the house. Let me clarify because some people misread it and assumed I meant a police chase let me clarify:

If police see you interact with your house they cannot raid it when you’re not there, they’re allowed to land attack you and capture you then raid your house in my opinion. But in my experience this has never happened, that’s why I suggest making it a rule. Currently to my experience, and many others, police fly 1km high in the sky or sit 2km out with rangefinders to wait for you to interact with your house and leave then call in a raid.

Bruh this kid is a 15 year old APD Corporal and FTO, hes put in 23 hours into cop in the last week alone and has 500 hours as a cop. No joke he probably has no life outside of playing on Olympus and those are  is his biggest achievements in life up to now.

 

Don't get me wrong he's a decent cop and fun to play with but don't expect a well reasoned, multilayered and educated argument. You're arguing with a literal child who's so privileged his life probably revolves around a video game and who's TS tags may very well be the most responsibility and respect he's gotten his entire life with dying on cop or losing gear being his biggest struggles yet.

 

You can't expect much from someone like that, you're effectively attacking the biggest thing in his life and he's too immature to see other viewpoints and his own biases, when you attack the APD to him it's a personal attack on his biggest achievements because he's too young and inexperiencedy to know better.

[Google 872]

8 minutes ago, sploding said:

Bruh this kid is a 15 year old APD Corporal and FTO, hes put in 23 hours into cop in the last week alone and has 500 hours as a cop. No joke he probably has no life outside of playing on Olympus and those are  is his biggest achievements in life up to now.

 

Don't get me wrong he's a decent cop and fun to play with but don't expect a well reasoned, multilayered and educated argument. You're arguing with a literal child who's so privileged his life probably revolves around a video game and who's TS tags may very well be the most responsibility and respect he's gotten his entire life with dying on cop or losing gear being his biggest struggles yet.

 

You can't expect much from someone like that, you're effectively attacking the biggest thing in his life and he's too immature to see other viewpoints and his own biases, when you attack the APD to him it's a personal attack on his biggest achievements because he's too young and inexperiencedy to know better.

Why are you attacking him on a personal level? People like you are what cause problems, no one ever mentioned anything about someone's life until you decided to say this. So let me put it this way. Shut the fuck up. We are trying to get something productive done here and you attacking people such as @Panda :) on a personal level does not advance this argument for our side by anything it only deteriorates it. It paints us out to be people who can't offer anything else to say except hey you're a no life. When that does not represent the people of our side who are wanting this change. It may represent some such as yourself, but certainly not the majority so please if you want us to try to make things better for civilians you need to begin watching how you act towards people publicly on the forums. (during an argument)

I think the most ironic thing in this post is when you said "...he's too immature...", yet you are clearly the immature one here. You are going after him as a person by saying he has no life and being a Corporal is his biggest achievement in life. When someone such as yourself can't think of anything else to say except stuff such as "no life", "biggest achievement in life up to now", "literal child", "privileged his life", "attacking the biggest thing in his life", "too immature", that makes you seem immature because you clearly can't handle accepting that you don't know what else to say. In the future if you're wanting to seem much more mature I highly advise to never go after someone on a personal level, it makes you seem immature because you can't control yourself or what you say. It also doesn't help the argument, if someone can't think of anything else to say except "no life" it makes their argument appear to be weak.

Just some advice, take it as you please.

[Panda :) 1916]

26 minutes ago, sploding said:

Bruh this kid is a 15 year old APD Corporal and FTO, hes put in 23 hours into cop in the last week alone and has 500 hours as a cop. No joke he probably has no life outside of playing on Olympus and those are  is his biggest achievements in life up to now.

 

Don't get me wrong he's a decent cop and fun to play with but don't expect a well reasoned, multilayered and educated argument. You're arguing with a literal child who's so privileged his life probably revolves around a video game and who's TS tags may very well be the most responsibility and respect he's gotten his entire life with dying on cop or losing gear being his biggest struggles yet.

 

You can't expect much from someone like that, you're effectively attacking the biggest thing in his life and he's too immature to see other viewpoints and his own biases, when you attack the APD to him it's a personal attack on his biggest achievements because he's too young and inexperiencedy to know better.

I am laughing so hard lol.

You cared enough to talk about my personal life HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Yes I enjoy cop and yes I did put in 23 hours last week its flatters me you took the time to look that up, but that was my 2nd week back after being on a 1 month 2 week loa, and if you really want to get technical I have been a cop since 2017 and I just got corporal near the last part of 2018 and having only 500 almost 6 hours after being a cop for later this year will be 2 years is pretty good not going to @ anyone but but I know people that have double that in only half the time I have been a cop.

I don't know how long this took to cook up but you have been downvoting me all-day I could go in on you but.... you aren't worth the energy my brain would use to think nor my fingers to type. 

And me not having the ability to have have a well reasoned multlayered and educated arguement I will have to disagree with you on. I brought up some valid points as did Krispy but at the end of the day we are arguing with something that can be compared to politics its doesn't matter what i say you won't change your opinion it doesn't matter what you say I won't change my opinion and thats a fact.

I'd have to assume you are in your early to mid 20's and you are coming at a 15 year old's personal life shows how mature you are huh? 

gl you have made a mistake.