APD amounts

[ThatNerdyGuy 5914]

4 minutes ago, Mr Majestic said:

Ok, I think I get where you're coming from now. So wouldn't the POs, etc that would normally be removed for not playing enough, also not get removed in general though? I feel like this could go both ways.

Yes and no, I'm not sure that there is a massive amount of people that know we reduced the requirements, there was a status update and I updated the Ranks and Progression Guide. There are still people that get removed, we've only had one or two removal periods since changing things. 

16 minutes ago, Mr Majestic said:

I wish we had a silver bullet to fix this problem, but we just don't. I know anything we bring up that could potentially give civilians the edge or an advantage is just going to get shot down as usual. I've been saying the APD has been too suppressive for well over a year now to anyone that would listen - I guess it's only a problem now because there is nobody left to fight.

How about we look at those crazy numbers the APD is making and you as an sAPD member voice your concern about imabalance in the next meeting?

I'm curious, what sort of adjustments would you have?

As for the money, I couldn't care less about money and I'm sure @SecTranLive feels the same way. I wouldn't be opposed to lowering the amount of APD money again, I wouldn't mind seeing lethal money drop imo. Another idea I have is lowering the amount of money made by rank, an example would be that PO's and Deputies make the least while Corporals and Seniors take a hit, but not to the same extent.

[Bloodmoon 2222]

3 minutes ago, ThatNerdyGuy said:

 

I'm curious, what sort of adjustments would you have?

 

-25% send to jail money

150k lethal cap

Make illegal items search for what they're currently worth when searched.

[ThatNerdyGuy 5914]

1 minute ago, Bloodmoon said:

-25% send to jail money

150k lethal cap

Make illegal items search for what they're currently worth when searched.

The only thing I'd change would be 200k lethal cap to go back to what it was before. Other than that I'm not opposed to this at all.

[SecTranLive 509]

1 minute ago, Bloodmoon said:

-25% send to jail money

150k lethal cap

Make illegal items search for what they're currently worth when searched.

I’d add remove the lethal splitting to POs and Deputies as well. They have hardly any money sinks so that’s an easy choice. 

[ThatNerdyGuy 5914]

Here would be what I'd recommend for the jail money amounts:

50% for 3 or more cops

33% for 2 cops

24% for one cop

[LULA 2022 - PT 13 487]

From some quick pocket math the APD has around 180 cops and there have been 11k players in the last 60 days, the current cop/civ ratio is sitting around 1/59 which isn't too bad and if the entire APD chose to take over all the servers they wouldn't be able to fill both completely.

 

I get the frustration civs feel but on the other hand I don't think this problem is completely the APDs fault. Cops have taken a decent amount of paycuts over the last 12 months and while this is based off my experience and won't reflect all cops my total per hour earnings on cop are actually below what I could earn playing civ or medic. 

 

If you want to buff player numbers clean the servers up, lately there's been a big influx of European gangs breaking rules and playing in big groups, while the payouts for legal and illegal runs haven't risen to meet inflation. The lower APD ranks are transient making closing apps not viable either.

 

Paycuts are a possible solution but you need to account for the toxicity and bullshit cops face routinely and not make it so low there's no more incentive to play. This issue is an extremely complex one with basis in all factions and outside factors and you can't boil it down to being solely the APDs fault, while the APD may be a culprit the current paradigm blames them completely and creates an adversarial relationship between SAPD and Civ council which makes the cooperation necessary to make a compromise that helps the server almost impossible.

Edited November 17, 2019 by sploding

[Bloodmoon 2222]

4 minutes ago, sploding said:

From some quick pocket math the APD has around 180 cops

239*

[ThatNerdyGuy 5914]

2 minutes ago, Bloodmoon said:

239*

There are 167 active apd members.

[Outcast 601]

26 minutes ago, Bloodmoon said:

-25% send to jail money

150k lethal cap

Make illegal items search for what they're currently worth when searched.

Should be even lower than that tbh, Cops out here making tons of money.

[Bloodmoon 2222]

Just now, ThatNerdyGuy said:

There are 167 active apd members.

And plenty more that run around with vibranium armor on a chief whitelist.

[LULA 2022 - PT 13 487]

2 minutes ago, Bloodmoon said:

And plenty more that run around with vibranium armor on a chief whitelist.

Let's just get rid of free Sr and Chief whitelists for everyone and make them actually earn their ranks, easy fix.

[JuanDeaged 1435]

27 minutes ago, sploding said:

11k players in the last 60 days

I’m sorry but you must have a deficiency. There is no way in hell you can compare people who log on to civ multiple time to the number of cops which are only counted once. Basic statistics your double, triple, quadruple counting people in 1 grouping while only counting them once in the other ofc the ratio is gonna be 1 to 59.

[LULA 2022 - PT 13 487]

11 minutes ago, JuanDeaged said:

I’m sorry but you must have a deficiency. There is no way in hell you can compare people who log on to civ multiple time to the number of cops which are only counted once. Basic statistics your double, triple, quadruple counting people in 1 grouping while only counting them once in the other ofc the ratio is gonna be 1 to 59.

The statistics are for unique players, not total times people logged in, and people who play cop also play civ. But just for shits n giggles I subtracted the number of cops in the last 60 from the total and got a ratio of 59.808/1 if you don't count the people who have whitelists but don't show up on the sheets. If you count them it sits at 40/1 and if that 10 player gap is too big you could always rip those whitelists and require them to meet times for their whitelists or stay at a rank equivalent to the times they put in.

 

Any way you cut it the idea that the server's decline is solely based off of the APD is rooted in emotion and hearsay instead of facts, and the current paradigm adopted by the civilian leadership is one that vilifies the APD and alienates them from a discussion on the issue, I don't disagree the APD may very well be a factor in the apparent decline of civ life. But it's a problem bigger than one faction and one that needs to account for BI, other servers, Olympus's culture and many other factors. If the civilian leadership and APD aren't able to put aside their differences and quid pro quo mentality to make an equitable solution that works for both parties then we won't be able to make a good plan to tackle the issue until it's almost too late.

[Zahzi 3014]

30 minutes ago, sploding said:

Cops have taken a decent amount of paycuts over the last 12 months

I may be forgetting something, but the only real paycut was the one a couple updates ago that nerfed jail profits by ~15%. This nerf has barely caused the APD income stats to flinch.

Here's the breakdown, average daily value across all servers for about a month following the early October update 

Cop Total	$42,804,929
Cop Arrest	$17,094,998
Cop Lethal	$11,981,275
Cop Ticket	$6,226,946
Cop Veh Search	$5,802,834
Cop Veh Seize	$1,698,876

*Note that Pharma seizes, player searches, briefcase searches (any maybe other sources?) aren't included in these stats.

It's interesting to see how much money cops make from lethals in comparison to the rest given that it's literally a combat payout for roleplay-free play time AND that this money is generated only from CPL+, which is such a small portion of the APD.

[LULA 2022 - PT 13 487]

13 minutes ago, Zahzi said:

I may be forgetting something, but the only real paycut was the one a couple updates ago that nerfed jail profits by ~15%. This nerf has barely caused the APD income stats to flinch.

Here's the breakdown, average daily value across all servers for about a month following the early October update 

Cop Total	$42,804,929
Cop Arrest	$17,094,998
Cop Lethal	$11,981,275
Cop Ticket	$6,226,946
Cop Veh Search	$5,802,834
Cop Veh Seize	$1,698,876

*Note that Pharma seizes, player searches, briefcase searches (any maybe other sources?) aren't included in these stats.

It's interesting to see how much money cops make from lethals in comparison to the rest given that it's literally a combat payout for roleplay-free play time AND that this money is generated only from CPL+, which is such a small portion of the APD.

I believed the paycuts that would slash deputy earnings by 50% and Corporal ones by 30% had been implemented.

 

In light of these findings I am strongly in favour of simultaneously reducing lethal money and enacting paycuts across the board, but I still believe those measures will only be a bandaid and for a permanent fix the Civ Council and Sr APD must put aside their differences and work in good faith to reach a permanent solution equitable to both parties.

[Zahzi 3014]

5 minutes ago, sploding said:

believed the paycuts that would slash deputy earnings by 50% and Corporal ones by 30% had been implemented.

These were approved, but retracted shortly after the meeting because the chief wasn't there. After that, it just got stalled due to feds happening.

6 minutes ago, sploding said:

Civ Council and Sr APD must put aside their differences and work in good faith to reach a permanent solution equitable to both parties.

There's honestly more cross faction agreement here than one might expect.

[Unjo 1818]

Cop money should stay on cop and not transfer to civ lol

[LULA 2022 - PT 13 487]

3 minutes ago, Zahzi said:

There's honestly more cross faction agreement here than one might expect.

I'm very glad to hear that, if the forums and civ council releases were the only thing to go off of it would seem they hate each other, a decent amount of Jr APD I've interacted with believe the council wants to effectively end the PD and I'm happy to hear that's not the truth. Arma 3 is 6 years old and at this rate I'm not sure the server can survive the next 3 or so years to hold on until A4 and still be competitive, even if it's behind the scenes it's good to know that the server isn't eating itself.

[JuanDeaged 1435]

51 minutes ago, sploding said:

The statistics are for unique players

Where are you getting the number that 11k unique people logged onto Olympus in the past 60 days because the past 2 months have the most dead I have ever seen this server.

[billdroid 895]

Bottom line: 

not enough people playing the server = dead server 

so fix it tysm

And idk about u guys but cop doesn’t really make much money lately since there is barely anybody with bounties on the server. People nowadays aren’t playing cop for money. They are just using this time to grind for ranks because there is not much else to do on the server. The only way to get the server back to being populated and fun is for people to stop sitting on cop and make gangs that actually do stuff.

[Zahzi 3014]

1 hour ago, sploding said:

From some quick pocket math the APD has around 180 cops and there have been 11k players in the last 60 days, the current cop/civ ratio is sitting around 1/59 which isn't too bad and if the entire APD chose to take over all the servers they wouldn't be able to fill both completely.

8 minutes ago, JuanDeaged said:

Where are you getting the number that 11k unique people logged onto Olympus in the past 60 days because the past 2 months have the most dead I have ever seen this server.

So I was curious what this would actually be, and pulled time stats from the past 2 weeks (unfortunately, I don't think we can go past that with the current stats system, so note the very small sample size)

In that time, players logged 34467 civ hours, 5213 cop hours, and 1587 medic hours. This is hours across the whole faction for the 2 weeks.

This puts the ratios of playtime at about 6.6 civ hours per cop hour, and 21.7 civ hours per medic hour.

[JuanDeaged 1435]

4 minutes ago, Zahzi said:

So I was curious what this would actually be, and pulled time stats from the past 2 weeks (unfortunately, I don't think we can go past that with the current stats system, so note the very small sample size)

In that time, players logged 34467 civ hours, 5213 cop hours, and 1587 medic hours. This is hours across the whole faction for the 2 weeks.

This puts the ratios of playtime at about 6.6 civ hours per cop hour, and 21.7 civ hours per medic hour.

so cop to civ is 1:6.6 which could be brought down even more if you took out the useless people who sit in kavala or the AFK hrs from civ. 

[ItsGG 1477]

I've brought this up before, got really negative feedback, but in all honesty it's a big factor as to why there's less new gangs since cops keep running them off the server before they can actually get started off.

[ZeroBlade 919]

2 hours ago, Richard said:

Not a good idea to stop people from playing a dead game.  I agree that the ratio is off, but closing apps isn’t the way to do it.

Lowering the pay may discourage help with the issue.  Would need to see some numbers before justifying this though.

Yeah okay i agree shutting down the apps is a bit too much but reducing the payments even more is maybe not the right idea like if they already reduced it by allot than i dont know...

[JuanDeaged 1435]

Just saying if y’all do reduce payments make it different for PO’s and Deps vs Corps and higher bc my dumbass gotta pay for all these god damn orcas