Gang Engagement Clarification

[ares 399]

Just looking for some opinions from the community and everyone's different viewpoints, hopefully some clarification on gang engagement. As of right now this is the only official statement we have in the rules:

If [A] John says hands up or die to [X] Hairy, then all of [A] is engaged with all of [X] and each gang is KOS to each other in that area and for wherever the engagement goes until its over. (5 minutes pass without engagement/shooting). (Keep in mind, gang members need to actually have gang tags in their name for them to be engaged, and, if you choose to wear gang tags, they MUST be displayed at the front of your name.)

There is no official guidelines or statement in the rules to give a specific distance of engagement and the area is not defined. I have heard many different interpretations from both members of the community and staff, such as:

There is no set area and gang engagement is gang engagement, it is the gang member's job to inform his gang about engagement.

There is a general area of engagement and the person has to be in the same area/situation to be engaged (still no guidelines or concrete info on the area)

There is a set area such as an NLR zone or 1km of engagement.

Again, just looking for everyone's opinion/some clarification on the rule.

[CaloomClark 1351]

Always known it to not be limited by distance. However i believe  there were instances years ago that messages sent to players within the same group but far apart and getting killed considered RDM?

[Bubbaloo - Reusable P Cup 3039]

The engagement needs to be within a reasonable area, 1Km. You cannot engage someone even if its [POO] vs [PEE] in Kavala and then have some other member shoot each other in Sofia without proper engagement. Granted, this may be a bit confusing at times so we are looking to get opinions from the community as to what they know to be right up until this point in case we need to make proper adjustments to the rule book. 

 

@ David Miller

[Toretto 579]

In my opinion, if you're engaging someone over text then you should message that person or another gang member you've seen near them. It seems intentional to catch someone off-guard by messaging someone else in their gang instead of the person you've identified.

[stayclaxxy 691]

To quote the rules:

(Altis Life Rules Chatper 1 subsection 6):

You may open fire on another player that may be involved with a group/gang member unless it is obvious they are not part of the situation.

 

To me, that would mean if [Poo] Foo engages with [Pee] Bar in Kavala, then [Poo] iPhone is not engaged in Sofia with [Pee]. Maybe my interpretation of this rule is wrong, (I am not an admin and I do not give any advice regarding rules because I barely can understand them myself half the time)

[ares 399]

Just now, stayclaxxy said:

To quote the rules:

 

You may open fire on another player that may be involved with a group/gang member unless it is obvious they are not part of the situation.

 

To me, that would mean if [Poo] Foo engages with [Pee] Bar in Kavala, then [Poo] iPhone is not engaged in Sofia with [Pee].

But then what about someone thats just outside of sofia in [Pee] or say 1-1.5km out?

[Badserverbadplayers 44]

Too much time on ur hands my guy

[-dante- 5325]

NLR is a good guideline to always use when you’re thinking about an area of engagement that isn’t dictated by a red zone or rings of a federal event. 
 

So if you engage someone in Kavala, your same gang mates aren’t able to kill each other in Sophia. Now, if you’re using text engagement and let’s say player X engages player Y via text. Player X is in Kavala but player Y is in Sophia where other X members are, then Y can kill them because they were engaged in Sophia. This is a pretty uncommon example though. But if it’s verbal engagement then it’s pretty black and white. If you verbal a gang in Kavala then the gang mates interacting in Sophia are not engaged. 

[Snake 771]

One thing is for sure, nothing is concrete in the rules and group engagement is group engagement. leave it alone and if a decision is made it needs to be put in the server rules on the wiki and not highlighted as a forum post 

[silton 4238]

There used to be a distance on engagement but they got rid of it. I just shoot anyone cause the rules don't really specify.

[Snake 771]

the more complicated you make the rule the more  complicated it is to enforce and verify in videos 

[N9ne 429]

Hands up or die. 

 

(You are all engaged permanently)

[David Miller 709]

2 hours ago, Bubbaloo Burrito said:

The engagement needs to be within a reasonable area, 1Km. You cannot engage someone even if its [POO] vs [PEE] in Kavala and then have some other member shoot each other in Sofia without proper engagement. Granted, this may be a bit confusing at times so we are looking to get opinions from the community as to what they know to be right up until this point in case we need to make proper adjustments to the rule book. 

 

@ David Miller

Pretty much this. It's hugely situational as engagements move around, how big are the groups, how spread out is everyone, if vehicles are involved, if helicopters or jets or something are involved.

2 hours ago, Toretto said:

In my opinion, if you're engaging someone over text then you should message that person or another gang member you've seen near them. It seems intentional to catch someone off-guard by messaging someone else in their gang instead of the person you've identified.

Honestly what Toretto said is the key, it's hard to quantify this kind of rule, but it is easy to spot when you see it.  If a player is making an honest attempt to engage correctly, that player is going to be OK 99.999999% of the time. If a player is trying to push the envelope of what is acceptable and find the limits of the rules, sometimes they will get away with it and sometimes they won't. 

 

1Km is a pretty good rule of thumb either way. 

[Panda :) 1920]

Out of all the examples 2 grown men chose to use the tag “[POO] and [PEE]” sorry idk why but that hurt.

[Bubbaloo - Reusable P Cup 3039]

9 minutes ago, Panda said:

Out of all the examples 2 grown men chose to use the tag “[POO] and [PEE]” sorry idk why but that hurt.

This is my safe space. Don’t judge.  

[-dante- 5325]

10 minutes ago, Panda said:

Out of all the examples 2 grown men chose to use the tag “[POO] and [PEE]” sorry idk why but that hurt.

You’ve been on these forums since you were like 14. If anyone could understand it should be you lol

[Skys 1633]

wait there is rules on olympus 

[johnny goose 3338]

i just scream hands up or die while im shooting them and ive never been banned

[Panda :) 1920]

2 hours ago, Dante said:

You’ve been on these forums since you were like 14. If anyone could understand it should be you lol

In that case everyone was 14 once.

[Exterminator 103]

Remove distance from being a factor due to too many elements at play. Ex: Vehicles, group numbers, distance, current activity in game. If [X] Engages [Y] then [X] and [Y] should be engaged irregardless of distance or initial engagement location. Any gang playing together typically are in discord, and even if not its not hard to just say in group channel [X] or [Y] just hands up'd me. It shouldnt be the attacking groups fault if you recruit members who cant communicate. 

 

Theres too many small margins of error otherwise and to fairly enforce you'd need a totality of the situation looked at, and even then it would more than likely be complete admin discretion and opionion. Ex: Gangs where members have autistic 2 letter names or similar names, where you might not know which of [X] you saw but you thought it was [X] Joe when really its [X] Hoe. 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Boxxyy

[stayclaxxy 691]

3 hours ago, Panda said:

Out of all the examples 2 grown men chose to use the tag “[POO] and [PEE]” sorry idk why but that hurt.

i used them because he did ;-;

[Lezek 144]

16 hours ago, Bubbaloo Burrito said:

The engagement needs to be within a reasonable area, 1Km. You cannot engage someone even if its [POO] vs [PEE] in Kavala and then have some other member shoot each other in Sofia without proper engagement. Granted, this may be a bit confusing at times so we are looking to get opinions from the community as to what they know to be right up until this point in case we need to make proper adjustments to the rule book. 

 

@ David Miller

So if I engage someone in Sofia and my gang member sees one of them at salt flats air field, it would be RDM for them to shoot since its more than 1km?

What if one of them were to drive down from Sofia after engaging there without anyone in my gang knowing, should my gang member still not shoot at them if he sees him more than 1km from where the engagement started?

[Moonini 165]

Ive been engaged on OG Cap in a separate channel and saw 2 of mine get merked 2 seconds later in Dp14 lmao. It's absolutely boofy and kinda purpose to engage someone w/ the same tag but not in the situation.

[The Antichrist 251]

5 hours ago, Moonini said:

Ive been engaged on OG Cap in a separate channel and saw 2 of mine get merked 2 seconds later in Dp14 lmao. It's absolutely boofy and kinda purpose to engage someone w/ the same tag but not in the situation.

At the same time it's not always a scheme.  Sometimes it's like "hey engage on [douche] for me please" and it doesn't always pan out correctly.  

[Moonini 165]

36 minutes ago, The Sovereign said:

At the same time it's not always a scheme.  Sometimes it's like "hey engage on [douche] for me please" and it doesn't always pan out correctly.  

true lol. I also used to do that to DB when i didnt gaf when they did salvage. Engage zahzi in sofia kill fuckin  majestic or inky or someone at kav