Should Cops be able to be tazed and restrained?

[Bubbaloo - Reusable P Cup 3031]

53 minutes ago, Lil Bill said:

its amazing to counter the cops and the cops want it removed already its fucking bullshit we restrain one cop and they can all come back with lethals its fair

I wouldn't say remove this "ability". I mean yes it might be annoying for the other faction but his is something that should be left as-is. 

[silton 4172]

1 hour ago, Tman15tmb said:

My biggest problem with cops being restrained at Fed events is that you take out the simulated police back up units. By restraining cops and limiting their numbers you are basically making it where only a few cops can respond to the situation compared to the large number of cops that should be responding. Unless we can somehow spawn in OP AI that simulates a greater police presence I don't see Fed robberies being a difficult task for rebels. It should be a challenge to break into a Federal building. Currently there is no challenge. Armory spoils and gold bars should not be free for the taking. 

Should also be a challenge for cops, as PO Kevin I can confirm its slamming walls, running up towers, pulling prowlers to texture bug people and wait to guns hot in the ghost hawk. I attacked a BW on cop and most APD were restrained so the higher up waited 5mins till the bomb blew. The gang managed to get away with the gear and a strider under the cops noses...

[JebronLames 175]

I'd like to propose a deal. Civs get vermins and mx, deputies like me get mk1 + GA carrier rig + ghille + 50 cal offroad + titans + grenades

^see how dumb that sounds?

[Tyrone 273]

3 hours ago, Berg02 said:

dont go alone and its alot harder to be restrained cause they have to taze you all at once to restrain

 

3 hours ago, Dante Fleury said:

They don't lose 6 v 1. These guys get taken in a one by one manner. For instance: I was tazed during a fed last night. I knew where the cops were taken from their voices so I cut the corner and got shot from behind by 2 people. I then take cover and start fighting with the 2 members only to be tazed from behind. 

Unfortunately it's not always avoidable. If they can take one cop per wave they are going to take over fast. Not saying cops shouldn't push on a more tactical level, but it's not always that clear cut. 

They lose 4v1s, not all one by one  @Lil Bill

 

[Tman15tmb 1823]

24 minutes ago, Silton said:

Should also be a challenge for cops, as PO Kevin I can confirm its slamming walls, running up towers, pulling prowlers to texture bug people and wait to guns hot in the ghost hawk. I attacked a BW on cop and most APD were restrained so the higher up waited 5mins till the bomb blew. The gang managed to get away with the gear and a strider under the cops noses...

No, trying to defend a federal building should not be an impossible challenge for the cops. For fucks sake you're trying to rob a federal building. Its not supposed to be easy. 

[silton 4172]

11 minutes ago, Tman15tmb said:

No, trying to defend a federal building should not be an impossible challenge for the cops. For fucks sake you're trying to rob a federal building. Its not supposed to be easy. 

I can agree with you, as both cop and civ I know the challenges of a federal event. From my experience yesterday I was first cop in first tased. Lethal a were loaded and I don't see how 3 corps couldn't lethal 1 guy with the same load out as them running around taking people, I think as a corporal you should be a great player as well as a great cop, cause I know lethal so aren't there for Rp

[-dante- 5144]

22 minutes ago, Tyrone Washington said:

 

They lose 4v1s, not all one by one  @Lil Bill

 

Including a spangle taze prob isnt a good idea when making a point.

[Tman15tmb 1823]

24 minutes ago, Silton said:

I think as a corporal you should be a great player as well as a great cop, cause I know lethal so aren't there for Rp

I'm technically a corporal and I'm one of the worst shots in the game. Just ask @NiNo Brown or anyone that has killed me countless times. Not all corporals are amazing tactical shooters.

[silton 4172]

14 minutes ago, Dante Fleury said:

Including a spangle taze prob isnt a good idea when making a point.

U SPANGLED YOUR SELF

3 minutes ago, Tman15tmb said:

I'm technically a corporal and I'm one of the worst shots in the game. Just ask @NiNo Brown or anyone that has killed me countless times. Not all corporals are amazing tactical shooters.

My point exactly  just watch tyrones video same load out 1v4. not to say they all need to be gods at the game but it would help

[-dante- 5144]

Just now, Silton said:

U SPANGLED YOUR SELF

Dont do this to yourself. Lil Bill was at least able to admit his mistake (which I honestly dont blame him due to circumstance), so dont try to make up inaccurate shit. Let's keep to the point at hand and not the petty stuff.

[DashTonic 797]

5 hours ago, reno walkins said:

while we are on the topics of cop can we get some police to actually respond to medic calls for help when we are in danger or held hostage? last three times iv been held up there have been 13 cops on and not a single one responded, there wasnt any feds going either. medics have something in place where if we dont respond we get in trouble, or atlest message the person that no help can be given. -yes this is some grade A salt, but point stands

That just you but when I see one I'm cross the map and chasing some guy

 

 

[Guest Excision]

Also I don't think that people realize that cops sit in the afk channel just scrolling until they see a fed or blackwater then they all just mass log with srAPD and everything I've seen it go from 10 cops to 20 max slots before we could bolt cut the door

[D A Q U A N 41]

6 hours ago, G.O.A.T. said:

much balance 5 me

ur a bad memer u gave me an old ass meme on my support ticket I demand either corporal or a  new meme

[Guest]

I was the one who asked devs about this and it eventually got implemented.

 

I admit I also did not foresee the insane imbalance at federal events. Fed gold and BW loot is practically free right now. No amount of tactics can help the APD when there is wave rule. Pick off most of the cops in a wave and taze/restrain the last 2 with overwhelming numbers. Rinse and repeat and each following wave becomes easier and easier to accomplish this. Especially when you capture the corporals and higher.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think losing is meant to be a fun experience. However there is a clear imbalance with how "Free" the BW loot is right now and it was not intended to be that way.

 

Edit: Outside of federal events this new feature is not an issue.

[Young Mogul 237]

3 times in a row I was tazed and restrained outside of kavala hq, couldnt even seem them, just tazed me and held me for as long as the rules allowed. Remove this, vigi's have not place tazing and restraining cops no matter who they are. The rules were fine before, now its just a troll fest for people who beat off to holding cops and wasting their time.

[silton 4172]

7 minutes ago, McDili said:

I was the one who asked devs about this and it eventually got implemented.

 

I admit I also did not foresee the insane imbalance at federal events. Fed gold and BW loot is practically free right now. No amount of tactics can help the APD when there is wave rule. Pick off most of the cops in a wave and taze/restrain the last 2 with overwhelming numbers. Rinse and repeat and each following wave becomes easier and easier to accomplish this. Especially when you capture the corporals and higher.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think losing is meant to be a fun experience. However there is a clear imbalance with how "Free" the BW loot is right now and it was not intended to be that way.

 

Edit: Outside of federal events this new feature is not an issue.

I still think as a cop and civ it makes cops think about more than slamming into a wall and keep coming back until they can come guns hot in a hawk   Or doing a few "corporal waves". Thinks as the APD can work as a team, cause I know for a fact the events that caused this to happen had 1 guy with a Corp load out making it mildly on equal grounds during a 1v1 situation and would have been easy to single him out. The update makes it cops think about strategies such as rebel attacks for cartels then mindlessly slamming into walls and dying. Once again just my ipinion tho 

[Duece 75]

Pretty OP for civs tbh. Playing cop should be just as fun as civ. Being tazed and restrained when you respond to a federal robbery and sitting there for 15 minutes just sucks.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Silton said:

I still think as a cop and civ it makes cops think about more than slamming into a wall and keep coming back until they can come guns hot in a hawk   Or doing a few "corporal waves". Thinks as the APD can work as a team, cause I know for a fact the events that caused this to happen had 1 guy with a Corp load out making it mildly on equal grounds during a 1v1 situation and would have been easy to single him out. The update makes it cops think about strategies such as rebel attacks for cartels then mindlessly slamming into walls and dying. Once again just my ipinion tho 

Slamming into walls already doesn't work because they get slain anyway.

 

My point is when you do a federal event as a civ you are entrenched in good cover and shooting positions. As a cop we have to punch a hole in the defense. If this game was 1st person only then tactics like suppressive fire and bounded fire would actually work (The act of one or more persons providing covering fire while one or more other persons move up close). Since you can safely scan your surroundings while behind cover this virtually nullifies those tactics all together because you see not only exactly where that covering fire is coming from but you also literally see the tactic happening by way of seeing the other guys move up. This is a very basic and very effective "Small unit tactic" that is used in all realms of infantry warfare but with 3rd person it makes it hardly worth it.

The game as we know it in third person is all about baiting shots. One person peaks out to try and get a defender to poke his head while someone else is ready to peak and shoot the defender. This can work and it can not but EVEN IF IT DOES WORK the defender is tazed and only one of them is. If the 2 attackers managed not to die from it they still have to close the distance and restrain the guy before he gets up and before his teammate reinforces him. Unfortunately this tactic works best in small scale fights and federal events are not small scale. It's not very effective against a fortress where there are multiple defenders and less than adequate cover moving up to said fortress for both the fed and the BW.

 

The only tactics actually worth their weight for the APD are 2-pronged blitz plays. Usually a strong ground push (Thing a strider/hunter that just drives straight through the defensive) with a strong heli drop to split everybody up. This doesn't really work well unless both pushes make it inside without immediate mass casualties. The point of it is to try and remove a couple civs from the fight and chip away.

 

I understand that a lot of the time APD and tactics in the same sentence is a joke. But I've had a lot of experience with federal events and usually win them without the use of a hawk but not after a few unsuccessful waves. If I lose 1-2 cops in the first few waves there's less tactics available for me to try. It's just downright unreasonable to think that an outnumbered APD with generally worse equipment could hope to prevail first wave vs a more numerous and well-equipped force in an entrenched position. Because if you don't win the first wave, it's guaranteed that 1-2 cops will end up captured as it is right now and it just means every following wave will be even more difficult for the cops. The balance is literally the reverse of how we have designed it to be. It's supposed to get gradually harder for the civs during these events.

[Guest Excision]

My man silton is right though when we did the blackwater and the fed corps just ran in like a chicken with its head cut off to go onto lethals they didn't even try to tase anyone just ran in the gate with their gun holstered and during the blackwater with 5 minutes left on the bomb they just opt out and sat at hq with 2 ghosthawks just waiting for bomb to blow, that doesn't even sound like they're trying to resolve the situation they basically just said fuck it lets just use 2 ghosthawks.

[silton 4172]

4 minutes ago, Excision said:

My man silton is right though when we did the blackwater and the fed corps just ran in like a chicken with its head cut off to go onto lethals they didn't even try to tase anyone just ran in the gate with their gun holstered and during the blackwater with 5 minutes left on the bomb they just opt out and sat at hq with 2 ghosthawks just waiting for bomb to blow, that doesn't even sound like they're trying to resolve the situation they basically just said fuck it lets just use 2 ghosthawks.

This ^^^^ Despite being on cop against my own gang I feel like me and my fellow the lower ranks tried to make more of an impact than the higher ups (besides the hawk. Of course). The Comms were pretty much all winging no focus on the goal to stop it beside waiting to use the hawk.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Excision said:

My man silton is right though when we did the blackwater and the fed corps just ran in like a chicken with its head cut off to go onto lethals they didn't even try to tase anyone just ran in the gate with their gun holstered and during the blackwater with 5 minutes left on the bomb they just opt out and sat at hq with 2 ghosthawks just waiting for bomb to blow, that doesn't even sound like they're trying to resolve the situation they basically just said fuck it lets just use 2 ghosthawks.

 

11 minutes ago, Silton said:

This ^^^^ Despite being on cop against my own gang I feel like me and my fellow the lower ranks tried to make more of an impact than the higher ups (besides the hawk. Of course). The Comms were pretty much all winging no focus on the goal to stop it beside waiting to use the hawk.

I don't know if I'm thinking of the same situation but there was one situation last night I was spectating and watched what was going on. The sAPD member there mentioned he wasn't going to risk going inside because so many cops had been captured already that he ran a high risk of getting captured himself which meant he wouldn't be able to pull the hawk at the end to stop the BW.

 

I understand you think they just gave up but he realized with 75% of his team captured, his only shot was to ensure the ghosthawk came out at the end to drive the rebels away from the BW. I'd say that's at least using more brainpower than throwing yourself at a brick wall.

[silton 4172]

10 minutes ago, McDili said:

 

I don't know if I'm thinking of the same situation but there was one situation last night I was spectating and watched what was going on. The sAPD member there mentioned he wasn't going to risk going inside because so many cops had been captured already that he ran a high risk of getting captured himself which meant he wouldn't be able to pull the hawk at the end to stop the BW.

 

I understand you think they just gave up but he realized with 75% of his team captured, his only shot was to ensure the ghosthawk came out at the end to drive the rebels away from the BW. I'd say that's at least using more brainpower than throwing yourself at a brick wall.

Yes I am aware of the sapd decision and as I said it was the only think that helped but after me and Sam were captured it was lethals loaded and stuff like that 1v4 shouldn't have happened. And despite When the hawk lethaled 4-5 players the strider and gear left without a trace. Also I am P.O. Kevin

[JebronLames 175]

Me being a deputy definitely influences my opinion on this, but BWs and Feds would be way too easy, especially for someone who has WAY better gear than cops. It's supposed to be hard for rebels to take over something like a federal reserve, and it's supposed to be easy for the cops to take it back, not the other way around. Not asking for apd to get another buff, but you can literally take out the ghost hawk before it even comes out.

Sr apd usually prefer to sit out and snipe when lethals are loaded, so all you guys have to do is kill every deputy and PO which shouldn't be hard, and then you just wait for the <2 sergeants to rush in, and you taze and restrain their ass. Boom. No ghosthawk being pulled out for the whole duration of the BW/Fed.

[KrispyK 22]

looks like the pigs won boys ::sadpepe::

[KingMango 21]

there should be a limit to how many cops u can have restrained while doing fed/BW/Jail. like u can only have 3 of 5 or if there are more cops like 10-16.