Should Vigis be able to taze cops?

[TheRandomOne 477]

7 minutes ago, JebronLames said:

Simple problem - only Cpl+ have lethals, and there usually aren't that many online at a time.

Simple solution - Allow PO's to have lethals.

[kev 423]

Just now, TheRandomOne said:

Simple solution - Allow PO's to have lethals.

sure im down

[SheriffJohnBeard 173]

sooo... how do i kidnap cops ?

[TheRandomOne 477]

3 minutes ago, SheriffJohnBeard said:

sooo... how do i kidnap cops ?

Same way you used to on Asylum. Tasers and restraints. These guys unfortunately aren't a fan though.

[Fat Clemenza 1722]

The issue is not whether or not Vigilantes should be allowed to deploy a taser on a cop. The tasering of Cops by Vigilantes and other taser-wielding Civs has been going on (rather infrequently) since Day 1 on Olympus. The issue is the most recent update that now gives Civilians the ability to restrain a Cop. This makes taking a Cop hostage or robbing a Cop significantly easier than it has been in days gone by; you don't even need to 3-to-1 Cops anymore due to the recent addition of the Cop-restrain feature. The SPAR-16 was added in order to buff a horrendously underpowered Vigilante faction. With this new addition, Vigilantes have become horrendously overpowered when it comes to fighting cops. If a reversal of the change is deemed too extreme, then maybe it's time to remove the SPAR-16 from the Vigi Shop? Maybe the APD should start treating Vigilantes and any other taser-wielding Civs as suspects? If I had to give an opinion, I'd say the most efficient solution is to revert the change. It forces to Civs to work harder to take a Cop hostage or to rob a Cop of their gear and it also removes the rules that were put in place to combat the Cop-restraining feature. I just think the complete erasure of this change is better than any regulation put in place to combat/curtail the abuse of the feature. You could still take Cops hostage or rob them. You could even do it at a Federal Event (provided the recent rule updates are nullified, thus making hostage-taking and robbing of cops at Federal Events legal again), but it'll be more difficult. Seems even to me. 

[RAYRAY 273]

finally a way to counter the zerg rushing sever stacking cops 

 

"we gotta remove it/make rules around it" 

 

pretty sure everyone who voted yes is civ and everyone who voted no is cop anyway 

7 minutes ago, Fat Clemenza said:

The issue is not whether or not Vigilantes should be allowed to deploy a taser on a cop. The tasering of Cops by Vigilantes and other taser-wielding Civs has been going on (rather infrequently) since Day 1 on Olympus. The issue is the most recent update that now gives Civilians the ability to restrain a Cop. This makes taking a Cop hostage or robbing a Cop significantly easier than it has been in days gone by; you don't even need to 3-to-1 Cops anymore due to the recent addition of the Cop-restrain feature. The SPAR-16 was added in order to buff a horrendously underpowered Vigilante faction. With this new addition, Vigilantes have become horrendously overpowered when it comes to fighting cops. If a reversal of the change is deemed too extreme, then maybe it's time to remove the SPAR-16 from the Vigi Shop? Maybe the APD should start treating Vigilantes as suspects? If I had to give an opinion, I'd say the most efficient solution is to revert the change. It forces to Civs to work harder to take a Cop hostage or to rob a Cop of their gear and it also removes the rules that were put in place to combat the Cop-restraining feature. I just think the complete erasure of this change is better than any regulation put in place to combat/curtail the abuse of the feature. You could still take Cops hostage or rob them. You could even do it at a Federal Event (provided the recent rule updates are nullified, thus making hostage-taking and robbing of cops at Federal Events legal again), but it'll be more difficult. Seems even to me. 

cops get free loadouts but the spar 16 just puts vigi over the edge ? 

[Guest G.O.A.T.]

4 hours ago, TheRandomOne said:

Simple solution - Allow PO's to have lethals.

How does PO lethals solve the proliferation of cop gear and cops being tazed/restrained/robbed in general? That's right, it doesn't.

 

This whole 'allow PO lethals' agenda will not be forced on me or anyone in the sAPD for that matter. This is not Asylum, and never will be. Expanding access to lethals will never be the answer to this problem. It was not broken prior to the update, it didn't need to be modified period.

36 minutes ago, RAYRAY said:

finally a way to counter the zerg rushing sever stacking cops 

 

"we gotta remove it/make rules around it" 

 

pretty sure everyone who voted yes is civ and everyone who voted no is cop anyway 

cops get free loadouts but the spar 16 just puts vigi over the edge ? 

Since there is a cancer 1 hour post cool down, Clemenza told me to post this for him:

 For the record, I've not cast a vote, nor do I intend to. I don't think free loadouts have anything to do with this. I'm sure Cops don't care that they lose their gear in a hostage situation or a robbery. It's apart of the game. However, they do care about the high frequency and relative ease of hostage-taking and Cop-robbing. That's the big issue for them. To them, that's what's taking the fun out of APD for many people. Furthermore, why should Vigilantes, or “forces that have been rejected, denied or have yet to be accepted to the Police Force to serve justice in Altis Life” have arguably better gear than a Deputy? All you need to be a Vigilante is money in order to obtain the license, weapon, and zip-ties. To apply for the APD, you must be 16, you must have no less than 28 hours on Olympus, and you must not be recently banned. To be a Deputy, you must have your application accepted and you must pass a Deputy interview. On top of that, you will need some money to purchase your initial loadout and vehicles. That seems lopsided, don't you think? 

Really? Minimum limit of an hour between posts? It took me a half hour to write this up. "New posts within a short time frame are limited. Please wait 2040 seconds before submitting"

[SheriffJohnBeard 173]

15 minutes ago, Fat Clemenza said:

 

do we taze the cops and yell in direct chat that we are restraining them? 

that makes things very complicated. 

 

i would assume if you have a vigi license and try to kidnap a cop, you should be send straight to jail. 

 

 

[Rogue 373]

7 hours ago, TheRandomOne said:

Simple solution - Allow PO's to have lethals.

No, Abuse Much?

 

[Bubbaloo - Reusable P Cup 2912]

Funny things is... the people abusing this are not "Mike" or "Kiko" the random civ who just gut Vigi. They are old players who said "Oh gozh yolly... a new way to fuck up something up and make it aids". 

Vigi's underpowered I get that. The recent update is exactly what made it aids. Not because of the staff that implemented it, but of the obvious abuse that was going to come from it. 

[Peter Long 4345]

Jesus H Christ. 

What have all of you turned into? 

[KrispyK 22]

18 hours ago, JebronLames said:

I agree with bubbaloo, it shouldn't be allowed. It's gotten out of hand. I didn't hop on arma for 5 or so days, decided to finally get on to get my hours. Within an hour and a half of playing, I got taken hostage twice, and just as heading off this other deputy was getting taken hostage again, all by the same guys. Yesterday, I was getting on when I heard "I'm getting kidnapped", noped the fuck out so fast.

It might not seem bad to civs, but cops are usually out numbered and have shit armor. It's even worse for deputies, because we can't get out of city limits without having a PO with us. There's no way to get away from it.

try being a fresh spawn in kavala. get over it.

cops have to deal with the same stuff we do.

[EWI 78]

18 hours ago, JebronLames said:

That's how it's supposed to go. Cops arrest, rebels run or kill. Not cops run while rebels take them hostage. You'd think it's about tactics and what not, but believe me, shitty armor has a play in it. Being 3:1'd isn't as bad, I think of it as a way for civs to get apd gear. But robbing cops after restraining them? really? you can make a living off of apd equipment now.

The only times I've been taken hostage wasn't because my positioning was bad, and tactics weren't involved either. I'd shoot a guy 3 times, he'd shoot me once, I'm down. He'd engage me when I'm in a car, I'd get out, I'd get lit up.

Unless some dude is running around with a mar 10 tazer how you getting one tapped???

[RAYRAY 273]

eh i still think this ridiculous and if you're a cop and don't like being tazed you're really just being whiney and even if vigi does have better gun then a deputy now the cops have been the most OP faction since the beginning of time because they don't Have to lose anything and still profit and still get to be apart of the fights and have no fear of death whatsoever maybe the APD will have to come up with better strategies than lining up cars and zerg rushing the shit out of people

3 hours ago, Bubbaloo Burrito said:

Funny things is... the people abusing this are not "Mike" or "Kiko" the random civ who just gut Vigi. They are old players who said "Oh gozh yolly... a new way to fuck up something up and make it aids". 

Vigi's underpowered I get that. The recent update is exactly what made it aids. Not because of the staff that implemented it, but of the obvious abuse that was going to come from it. 

how bout leave it to the cops to ruin something for civs once again ? 

 

i know this isn't asylum but they have MX's not spars LOL and it's pretty balanced 

Edited March 6, 2017 by RAYRAY

[Bucko 167]

21 hours ago, Bubbaloo Burrito said:

OMG. I HATE this new thing. Everyone that agrees that this should be a thing does NOT play cop. It is the most annoying thing in the whole world. Fucking being tazed, retrained and robbed three times in an hour. Fuck that. I have never really been salty salty in this game but this really messed it up for me. I hope something is done about this. 

Just taze them first 

[RAYRAY 273]

Just now, Bucko said:

Just taze them first 

lol exactly just don't get caught like the APD has been saying to civs 

[Bubbaloo - Reusable P Cup 2912]

Yep it's that easy. "Just get gud". If it was that straightforward the chief of police wouldn't have also complained about the situation. "Get gud" is not going to cut it. 

[Creepy 1305]

21 hours ago, Jesse said:

What about the upwards of 60 minutes we take from rebels when they get fucked over by cops? Hell even when a cop fucks up as far as initiation goes or processing, etc. We still send them to jail and even if theres a player report or something. They still have served 60 minutes in jail.

It's not my fault people are taking situations and making them bad. The game is what you make of it. If you chose to be salty and pissed when someone captures you in a pixelated reality. That's not my fault. Try to make the best of the situation.. Just like I do when I get fucked over because I get captured logging into the server or spawn in the middle of a shit storm. Or when my helicopter pilot DC's.

+1000000000000

10 minutes ago, Bubbaloo Burrito said:

Yep it's that easy. "Just get gud". If it was that straightforward the chief of police wouldn't have also complained about the situation. "Get gud" is not going to cut it. 

The APD operates with impunity in the field. You have gotten so used to endless respawns and no NLR, that I bet 15-20 minutes is a veritable lifetime for you. Welcome to any time a civ gets rolled over by the cops. Even worse than losing your gear is the infuriating process of being tazed, blacked out on the ground, trying to get up, the inevitable texture bug from the APD skins + lights going off, then some dude that you can just now barely see runs by you and clacks on irons. Someone else throws you in a car and talks shit to you the whole way to HQ, then processes you in the most annoying voice humanly possible. If you're lucky and in the mood for RP you MIGHT get it, but mostly you'll get robo-copped by the new wave of deputies. Good luck explaining your gun, manslaughters, etc. Then, you get to spend the next 20 - 80 minutes in jail plotting your revenge, praying the server doesn't restart or that you don't crash adding time to your sentence.

I kind of forgot where I was going with this.. but basically I think it was somewhere along the lines of "no one feels sorry for the APD." Yeah. That's what it was.

[RAYRAY 273]

22 minutes ago, Bubbaloo Burrito said:

Yep it's that easy. "Just get gud". If it was that straightforward the chief of police wouldn't have also complained about the situation. "Get gud" is not going to cut it. 

it's bs everytime the little circle of pals decides something isn't fair to them it should be removed  it's always been apart of altis life what makes the recent spike in kidnappings different 

[TheRandomOne 477]

9 hours ago, G.O.A.T. said:

How does PO lethals solve the proliferation of cop gear and cops being tazed/restrained/robbed in general? That's right, it doesn't.

 

This whole 'allow PO lethals' agenda will not be forced on me or anyone in the sAPD for that matter. This is not Asylum, and never will be. Expanding access to lethals will never be the answer to this problem. It was not broken prior to the update, it didn't need to be modified period.

Well, if you read the context in which that was written it technically would help.

 

Additionally, I can't force anything on you so I think you can breathe easy chief. Also, no one is arguing if this is Asylum or not, nobody is lost. And you're right for the other issues cops face, trying to get an armed blackish for the top 10% of cops would do wonders to help the other 90% of cops. Better yet, buffing only the ghost hawk(which I actually agree was necessary for the ghost hawk itself), will do wonders to help the majority of cops that can't pull them out.   You'll have to forgive me if I believe your perception to be a bit skewed.

6 hours ago, Rogue said:

No, Abuse Much?

 

Everything can be abused. If you're going to join the conversation get a better argument

[PoptartRex 3292]

1 hour ago, Creepy said:

I kind of forgot where I was going with this.. but basically I think it was somewhere along the lines of "no one feels sorry for the APD." Yeah. That's what it was.

I do agree that in certain aspects the APD could improve marginally, but look at this from the other aspect. The average APD squad (lets say 1 Corporal, 3 Patrol Officers, and 2 Deputies) are out-gunned, out-geared, and ANY situation is fought through attrition of the opposing force. The APD squad isn't meant to win the first couple waves. It is meant to slowly resolve the situation as more suspects are getting caught over time. What people are failing to understand is that civilians need to also learn how to handle this. Whether it is fleeing from the situation or taking steps to ensure that you can free your buddies that are restrained, there is a way to handle this. 

The problem with allowing cops to be restrained is that it eliminates the primary way that APD wins. It voids how Olympus cops normally act. With cops being restrained, it removes the simulation of waves and cops have to rely on winning the first couple waves regardless if they are out-gunned, out-geared, and are playing the attackers. 

So why does this work fine on Asylum? 

Here are a couple reasons (keep in mind I don't play Asylum, so this is just based off of what I know)

1) Cops don't fight civs as much there - therefore the issue isn't as present

2) Patrol Officers have lethals - they are able to deal with the situation instantly more often

This change isn't for Olympus. This is why some other steps and changes are currently under effect.

[Chaos 421]

I did not know this was that big of a deal...

[TheRandomOne 477]

7 minutes ago, TheCmdrRex said:

 

1) Cops don't fight civs as much there - therefore the issue isn't as present

2) Patrol Officers have lethals - they are able to deal with the situation instantly more often

This change isn't for Olympus. This is why some other steps and changes are currently under effect.

Your second point is definitely accurate. During my time career copping on Asylum I will say, I fought civs waaay more there. And I don't mean kavala scats. Big gangs, Synergy,Bad Blood, DHM, and many more. These were the kind of gangs who would see 15 cops on and still do feds and shit. The ones who would fight cops to the point higher ups ordered cops to switch servers because people would get constantly killed/kidnapped. 

 

Honestly, comparing the two cops have it much easier here. Maybe that's why I don't understand the fuss.

[Bubbaloo - Reusable P Cup 2912]

6 minutes ago, MrBoonie said:

Bubba look I thought you were better than this, your attitude and professionalism has diminished over time. What a shame.

No it hasn't. This is my only time of bitching and moaning. I get a freebie once in a while. 

I can bitch and moan a little bit now. I'm not staff anymore  

[TheRandomOne 477]

3 minutes ago, MrBoonie said:

Come on buddy don't stoop down to their levels.

Whose levels? I don't agree with him but even I know he's completely entitled to voice his opinion, and he should in fact. Especially if it helps promote an open discussion.