House Raiding Debate

[ehKyler 17]

So yesterday I was chillin in DP 11, when a cop car was coming up from the distance, not code 3 or anything. I see that I have a 173k bounty and an illegal weapon so I run through through my house, in through the front door and out the back, keep in mind they weren't initiated on me, or said anything to me. I didn't store anything in my house, or take anything out I didn't even look in the trunk. All I did was run through my house. Next thing you know my house is being raided, doors broken down and I was like okay thats fine they wont find me there. THEN I GET A MESSAGE SAYING THEY ARE SEARCHING MY HOUSE, and they ended up seizing 8 mil worth of drugs.

I just think that the house raiding probable cause is kind of stupid and should be nerfed, for all they know I could have been at someone else's house with keys, or cops can just CAMP for hours at a house with a lot of drugs and just siezing everything after seeing someone come out the front door when they re-spawned, and the fact that I wasn't even in the house or initiated makes it 10x worse, and I was veryyy upset.

I think the rule should be changed if the cops visibly see someone accessing the house, or if they go in and come out with a different load out, or if the cops are initiated on you and you lock the doors. etc should be probable cause. However not being initiated and running THROUGH your house shouldn't be probable cause, because they shouldn't have the need to search the house if no one is in it.

Opinions? +1 or -1

[Guest Hadi Mokdad]

Searching a house/gang shed is authorized when:

An APD member has a form of probable cause (bounty, illegal weapon, etc.) and witnesses a civilian interacting with, shooting out of, or taking refuge in a house/gang shed in any form. The Sergeant or higher has discretion on whether or not to conduct a search.

 

Even if you have someones else key, the house can still be searched despite if you are the owner/key holder.  Your name will pop on the house information saying key holder online so it's still getting searched

 

 

 

[|REAL| Boing 172]

@D P
 have this down in APD nerfs, and have since a few weeks ago. This rule very badly needs to be re written. As it stands now all they need to see is someone "illegal" open the door of a house.

[SPBojo 6862]

  On 3/16/2019 at 5:43 PM, |REAL| Boing said:

@D P
 have this down in APD nerfs, and have since a few weeks ago. This rule very badly needs to be re written. As it stands now all they need to see is someone "illegal" open the door of a house.

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Your @'ing the wrong person when it comes to nerfing the APD.

[RambleR 1138]

Lol i remember baiting cops into searching excisions house. One funny ass loophole 

[Richard 595]

  On 3/16/2019 at 5:45 PM, Bojo said:

Your @'ing the wrong person when it comes to nerfing the APD.

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He should @NoOne, cause no one is gonna change anything.  Half the APD force thinks every gun is illegal.  I’ve been charged countless times for “possession of illegal firearm”, while either unarmed or carrying a Spar-16 with WPL.

[SPBojo 6862]

  On 3/16/2019 at 5:59 PM, RDyer216 said:

He should @NoOne, cause no one is gonna change anything.  Half the APD force thinks every gun is illegal.  I’ve been charged countless times for “possession of illegal firearm”, while either unarmed or carrying a Spar-16 with WPL.

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Which is why i want APD removed and every SAPD banned of the server for being complete utter retards and doing nothing but kill the server.

[ehKyler 17]

  On 3/16/2019 at 5:39 PM, Hadi Mokdad said:

Searching a house/gang shed is authorized when:

An APD member has a form of probable cause (bounty, illegal weapon, etc.) and witnesses a civilian interacting with, shooting out of, or taking refuge in a house/gang shed in any form. The Sergeant or higher has discretion on whether or not to conduct a search.

 

Even if you have someones else key, the house can still be searched despite if you are the owner/key holder.  Your name will pop on the house information saying key holder online so it's still getting searched

 

 

 

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Okay, that needs to be nerfed, I know the rules.

[Zeuse 1352]

  On 3/16/2019 at 6:03 PM, Bojo said:

Which is why i want APD removed and every SAPD banned of the server for being complete utter retards and doing nothing but kill the server.

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Isn't your job as a civ council member to worry about civs, not the APD?

[gaz 522]

  On 3/16/2019 at 5:59 PM, RDyer216 said:

He should @NoOne, cause no one is gonna change anything.  Half the APD force thinks every gun is illegal.  I’ve been charged countless times for “possession of illegal firearm”, while either unarmed or carrying a Spar-16 with WPL.

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Submit an IA report or bring them to support if they do that, they should know stuff like that. The reason people don’t know things like that is that people only have WPLs once in a blue moon. As for APD change, the past 3 or 4 handbook updates and server updates have nerf’d the APD, so they are atleast somewhat open to change.

  On 3/16/2019 at 6:25 PM, Zeuse said:

Isn't your job as a civ council member to worry about civs, not the APD?

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No, his job is to make civs a balanced and powerful faction. The biggest way to do that is further balance and nerf the APD.

[Zeuse 1352]

  On 3/16/2019 at 6:27 PM, gaz said:

The biggest way to do that is further balance and nerf the APD.

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It seems to be their only way.

[gaz 522]

  On 3/16/2019 at 6:16 PM, Aether said:

 

Trust but verify,

 

I don't suppose you have a video recording of what transpired that you'd be willing to share(even though it would be showing your house location)?

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Its irrelevant, the APD was in the right, he just wants the rule changed. He interacted with his house with an illegal weapon and while wanted, so they searched it. 

  On 3/16/2019 at 6:28 PM, Zeuse said:

It seems to be their only way.

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It is the easiest way, APD and civs are ar a constant tug of war for power on the server, hence civ council wanting to nerf civs. They do make other changes though, go read through the past few civ council blogs.

[SPBojo 6862]

  On 3/16/2019 at 6:25 PM, Zeuse said:

Isn't your job as a civ council member to worry about civs, not the APD?

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The biggest worry civ's has is the APD.

[Zeuse 1352]

  On 3/16/2019 at 6:31 PM, Bojo said:

The biggest worry civ's has is the APD.

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Okay, but surely there must be other ways to fix civ other than nerf the APD any time civs have a problem?

[Richard 595]

  On 3/16/2019 at 6:27 PM, gaz said:

Submit an IA report or bring them to support if they do that, they should know stuff like that.

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You’re joking right?

In my experience, IA reports have been useless.  I saw a PO get demoted once for I believe 3 days, and I truly believe it was only because he was a problem cop.  My understanding is that he had been removed before so it was easy action.  IA reports circumvent the server handbook too often.  I’m gonna stand with @Bojo on this one.

 

[ehKyler 17]

  On 3/16/2019 at 6:16 PM, Aether said:

 

Trust but verify,

 

I don't suppose you have a video recording of what transpired that you'd be willing to share(even though it would be showing your house location)?

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I only started recording after I got the first message about my house being raided.

[Kyle 352]

Cop server

[SPBojo 6862]

  On 3/16/2019 at 6:33 PM, Zeuse said:

Okay, but surely there must be other ways to fix civ other than nerf the APD any time civs have a problem?

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If only it was as simple as that, id go into detail but i honestly cant be arsed, all you need to know is that its not as easy as "buffing civ" you have to give and take and with how OP apd already is id rather not allow them free buffs ontop of what they already have.

[Pledge 2294]

I don't understand what is so hard to grasp about probable cause. If we see someone who is:

1) Commiting a crime

2) Wanted for commiting a crime

 

using something (house, car, heli, whatever) we can search it. It makes sense, because that's what probable cause is. I have yet to see a report where someone's house was raided when they didn't do anything, if you don't want to get raided then don't give keys to people who use them while the APD is near them and they have or are commiting a crime. 

  On 3/16/2019 at 6:34 PM, RDyer216 said:

You’re joking right?

In my experience, IA reports have been useless.  I saw a PO get demoted once for I believe 3 days, and I truly believe it was only because he was a problem cop.  My understanding is that he had been removed before so it was easy action.  IA reports circumvent the server handbook too often.  I’m gonna stand with @Bojo on this one.

 

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LOL, in my TWO YEARS on the sAPD I have never seen anyone demoted for less than a week unless they had evidence to overturn it. 

[Icy 127]

  On 3/16/2019 at 6:16 PM, Aether said:

 

Trust but verify,

 

I don't suppose you have a video recording of what transpired that you'd be willing to share(even though it would be showing your house location)?

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i bet the senior that raided the house has a video ;^)

[Richard 595]

  On 3/16/2019 at 6:39 PM, Pledge said:

LOL, in my TWO YEARS on the sAPD I have never seen anyone demoted for less than a week unless they had evidence to overturn it.

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I sent you and seniors a PM yesterday inquiring about such a situation.  Was hoping for a reply if possible.

[Pledge 2294]

  On 3/16/2019 at 6:44 PM, RDyer216 said:

I sent you and seniors a PM yesterday inquiring about such a situation.  Was hoping for a reply if possible.

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From what I understand (which is very little since I wasn't involved with his discipline) he was banned by staff, demoted because he was banned, unbanned by staff because apparently there was an explanation for it and then reinstated. APD is beholden to staff on server rules. Sorry.

[Icy 127]

  On 3/16/2019 at 6:42 PM, Aether said:

Turn that on its head though and carter to the bounty hunters more(with content and incentives), and by default civs.. you'd see an APD that would have to collaborate more WITH civs in order to validate their existence. 

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or apd could rip every vigi license ever and sAPD could task their medic counterintelligence task force with fabricating evidence of all the prominent vigilantes on olympus in order to get them banned, establishing a permanent social hierarchy that scares vigilantes to the bottom of the food chain, and INSTEAD they’ll come to the HQ and turn in their bounties to patrol officers to avoid a ban, further increasing their reliance on the APD.

[Richard 595]

  On 3/16/2019 at 6:54 PM, Icy said:

or apd could rip every vigi license ever and sAPD could task their medic counterintelligence task force with fabricating evidence of all the prominent vigilantes on olympus in order to get them banned, establishing a permanent social hierarchy that scares vigilantes to the bottom of the food chain, and INSTEAD they’ll come to the HQ and turn in their bounties to patrol officers to avoid a ban, further increasing their reliance on the APD.

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I don’t think many medics would be wrapped up in a crooked APD evidence tampering scheme.  

[LULA 2022 - PT 13 536]

  On 3/16/2019 at 7:02 PM, RDyer216 said:

I don’t think many medics would be wrapped up in a crooked APD evidence tampering scheme.  

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Medics report illegal activity to us all the time and I can't recall the amount of medics who have directly led us to a drug bust we wouldn't have gotten without their help.

 

RnR is still dirty, but not as much as the APD.