o7 to RnR - windows keying not my forte

[CommanderSuki 628]

12 minutes ago, McDili said:

The sad thing about this is that the civ that got rescued probably had the most appreciation for the R&R for going out of their way to do that at their own expense. Potentially the best experience he will ever have interacting with the R&R.

 

Idk man, some rules are definitely outdated and in this case not perfect. Medic risked his life and his equipment to save a life, to me it seems that's what should guide the faction. Life above all else. The rules currently seem quite focused on saving the equipment above all else particularly when it comes to helicopters, but sometimes to save a life it takes some risk. 

I know it's a video game and referencing real life is a recipe for disaster, but in real life the heroes that are firefighters and paramedics often are characterized by risking their life (And by extension their equipment) to save others. I believe it would go a long way to seriously consider that when evaluating the R&R handbook.

 

@SR&R please see this as constructive criticism. I'm not swinging my dick here and I think that some areas of the R&R handbook have taken that "Life above all else" standpoint and updated for the better, there has certainly been some positive changes to allow medics more independence to make risky decisions. The situation with Mav though is probably a situation where the rules might have missed the point, and trust me, I know they were created before most of the SR&R were even SR&R. Not placing blame. Just offering my unsolicited 2 cents. 

Its a outdated rule that probably should be changed but it is still a rule saying i dont care about the rules and then breaking them is not the correct way to deal with it that is also why this went so far its not the fact that he saved a life but that he didn't care about the rules went directly against the handbook and then said he didn't care even when corrected i never wanted to blacklist him only to notify him that is wasn't the correct way to deal with the situation that he went full retard after that is why it all went to shit.

As for the note i gave him i do what im supposed to do when i see rule breaks i gave him a DC that he couldn't handle that is his own problem but fully within my guidelines.

  1.1. Documented Counseling: Any behavioral misconduct or violation of the R&R handbook, or Olympus sever rules, that

          could be defined as accidental, un-intentional, or that cannot be defined as malicious or egregious in nature.

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, CommanderSuki said:

Its a outdated rule that probably should be changed but it is still a rule saying i dont care about the rules and then breaking them is not the correct way to deal with it that is also why this went so far its not the fact that he saved a life but that he didn't care about the rules went directly against the handbook and then said he didn't care even when corrected i never wanted to blacklist him only to notify him that is wasn't the correct way to deal with the situation that he went full retard after that is why it all went to shit.

As for the note i gave him i do what im supposed to do when i see rule breaks i gave him a DC that he couldn't handle that is his own problem but fully within my guidelines.

  1.1. Documented Counseling: Any behavioral misconduct or violation of the R&R handbook, or Olympus sever rules, that

          could be defined as accidental, un-intentional, or that cannot be defined as malicious or egregious in nature.

 

Right, I'm not saying he should be unblacklisted. He made it clear that he would be insubordinate and do the same thing again and again.

 

Perfectly good reason to blacklist someone.

 

I'm more or less just addressing the rule itself, it shouldn't result in any disciplinary if someone decides to be reckless out of necessity and urgency to save a life. If saving a life costs equipment, it's a worthwhile trade every day of the week. I understand the rules weren't design for this exact situation, it's designed to stop retards from being retards with their helicopters. I get that. 

There was no retard being a retard here, just a guy taking quite the risk to save someone, gave the civ probably one of the best R&R impressions that could be made, and getting written up for it and told not to do it again. Personally feel this type of circumstance should be acceptable, else the rules are doing a disservice to the people of Altis and the R&R, in my personal opinion.

[CommanderSuki 628]

2 minutes ago, McDili said:

Right, I'm not saying he should be unblacklisted. He made it clear that he would be insubordinate and do the same thing again and again.

 

Perfectly good reason to blacklist someone.

 

I'm more or less just addressing the rule itself, it shouldn't result in any disciplinary if someone decides to be reckless out of necessity and urgency to save a life. If saving a life costs equipment, it's a worthwhile trade every day of the week. I understand the rules weren't design for this exact situation, it's designed to stop retards from being retards with their helicopters. I get that. 

There was no retard being a retard here, just a guy taking quite the risk to save someone, gave the civ probably one of the best R&R impressions that could be made, and getting written up for it and told not to do it again. Personally feel this type of circumstance should be acceptable, else the rules are doing a disservice to the people of Altis and the R&R, in my personal opinion.

The note wasn't made before after he started saying he didn't care about the rules and would do it again i initially only wanted to clarify what was wrong in the situation and maybe find other ways to help.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, CommanderSuki said:

The note wasn't made before after he started saying he didn't care about the rules and would do it again i initially only wanted to clarify what was wrong in the situation and maybe find other ways to help.

Right I get that just saying I didn't agree with the "Don't do it again" is all. What he did after that is on him, deserves what he got. 

[MAV 1669]

57 minutes ago, CommanderSuki said:

The note wasn't made before after he started saying he didn't care about the rules and would do it again i initially only wanted to clarify what was wrong in the situation and maybe find other ways to help.

There is more then 1 way to give constructive criticism... Copy and Pasting excerpts from the handbook isn't coaching... isnt being a leader... and can also be seen as making a joke (which is how i took it since the thread was a joke thread to begin with)... hell you even replied to me with a meme...

Actions are write up able or they are not.... writing up someone AFTER they tell you they would do it again, mainly because they thought you were joking in the first place is wrong... its cowardice and what i had the problem with... I'm not challenging the blacklist.. though playing devils advocate... if i were to tell a mod/admin that I will break a rule in a situation i dont agree with, they wouldn't 'ban' me on the spot...they would wait until i break the rule and am reported for it... just as ive seen members of the apd say they will do xyz cause they dont agree with a Sr. and been told 'well if you do, then you'll face administrative action'

I said i wouldn't follow 1 rule, a rule that everyone on this thread can likely agree is 'misguided' and should be changed... a rule and a situation that has never come up in the past... and likely would never come up for me again... I was in TS when the blacklist was issued and on almost daily... anyone without a chip on their shoulder would have pulled me in an talked to me and actually provided coaching..not quote the handbook like a robot... sure im blacklist... if i have to be a martyr in the name of change then so be it...

Sucks it went down this way, sucks my name in staff's eyes may have been dragged through the mud, but I am a man of integrity and stand by what I did, perhaps shouldn't have publically said i wouldn't follow that 1 specific rule...but shit happens and you move on.. still <3 you all

[Bloodmoon 2222]

Come on guys, don't blame @CommanderSuki, how is he supposed to know what rules to change when his play time looks like this: 

[Greenarrow 197]

@MAV

 

[Isaac Newton 1983]

Should have been a demotion. Nothing more (if it could have even been considered a fuck up to begin with, considering @McDili's point).

Search and Rescue is merit based, no? If he lost his merit and was insubordinate, demote him to pleb level (no offense Advanced Paramedics haha).

The disciplinary steps are there for a reason. People are irrational, usually coming to their senses later on. They blow smoke out of their ass, hence why we record how they reacted to situations as apart of the write up. It's additional information for the senior to take into account later on.

If he did it again, suspend him. If he did it again after that, blacklist. 

@Mercury It's like if someone goes and says, "Im going to keep Mass RDMing because I don't agree with the server rules or the admin that corrected me." And then they don't...because that would be retarded and would be counter productive. The guy won't get banned for disagreeing and talking back though as it is not necessary. @MAV Probably said some dumb shit, sure, but people have said much worse and have received no punishment whatsoever. Actions speak louder than words.

Point is, Not everyone agrees with punishment, so why react like we've never been talked back to before? I mean, I could give dozens of examples of unruly medics who disagreed in a public way. It's not right, but unless it was like racist or absolutely and completely uncalled for, their reactions were simply noted, not taken as a blacklistable offense.

Since we are all giving our 2 cents. Lol.

Everyone feels different. Do what you gotta do. The black and white, eye for an eye crap was hard to deal with as Director. End goal is to have fun. Stop over thinking shit and play the game. More importantly, open the doors for others to play the faction.

(I know - it's easy for me to say because #Retired ... Deal with it hahaha)

[DeadPool 4376]

Mfw when a player can do more damage on cop then medic. And it’s easier to get cop than medic. 

[FluffyTEDDY 240]

I am probably the last person people wanna see talking about leadership etc.. But in my years of playing Arma i've gotten really good at being just that.. A leader... 

Now my two cents is that though a rule was broken, at best it would serve as a reminder not to do it again. Now the rule in question is without a doubth outdated, but it still exists. Mercury acted on his opinion and served the blacklist as the best course of action. Now i don't agree with his choice but i also see the reason for why he made his choice. 

Being the leader of a faction is not an easy thing to be.. Many may think it is hella easy, but wait until you are in the situation and have to make decisions based on the information you have at hand. In my eyes i would say the blacklist is harsh, and probably would've see if there was different ways to go around to satisfy both parties. But i also agree with the rules since i come from Heavy Role-Play related communities where you wouldn't had done such a move cause that would just be idiotic and wrong.

 

I see the points from both sides and agree with both parties, but we are all humans and every choice we make will piss someone of or make then unsatisfied..

 

That is my 2 cents 

[i win 1096]

36 minutes ago, FluffyTEDDY said:

I am probably the last person people wanna see talking about leadership etc.. But in my years of playing Arma i've gotten really good at being just that.. A leader... 

I bolded where your first paragraph should have ended.

[Noble Noble 109]

4 hours ago, Fat Clemenza said:

 

Such a good book and film :pepehands:

[FluffyTEDDY 240]

46 minutes ago, Mr Majestic said:

I bolded where your first paragraph should have ended.

Laugh all you want, but i have equally right to comment and give my fair 2 cents on the case... and no not out to start a flame war so i will leave it at this!

 

[raykazi 180]

1 minute ago, FluffyTEDDY said:

Laugh all you want, but i have equally right to comment and give my fair 2 cents on the case... and no not out to start a flame war so i will leave it at this!

 

shouldnt have bothered replying at all then

[Prime 589]

Just for the rules sake. With situations such as this I believe there should be an exception. Theres a fine difference from needlessly damaging our equipment in attempts to have fun such as I did once versus damaging equipment in attempts to saving someones life. Like if a medic is willingly risking a 130k helicopter just for a 17.5k payout but the satisfaction of getting a difficult revive is admirable and should not be disciplined for such a selfless act. Of course these actions should only be preformed without putting others in danger and is the last option they have before denying them. I am more than certain most of our seniors would agree we me on this. It just goes to show how dedicated people are when they are willing to put their own money on the line. If such a thing is implemented in the future there's a chance we will be seeing more extravagant and daring things from our medics.

[hawk 1527]

2 minutes ago, Prime said:

Just for the rules sake. With situations such as this I believe there should be an exception. Theres a fine difference from needlessly damaging our equipment in attempts to have fun such as I did once versus damaging equipment in attempts to saving someones life. Like if a medic is willingly risking a 130k helicopter just for a 17.5k payout but the satisfaction of getting a difficult revive is admirable and should not be disciplined for such a selfless act. Of course these actions should only be preformed without putting others in danger and is the last option they have before denying them. I am more than certain most of our seniors would agree we me on this. It just goes to show how dedicated people are when they are willing to put their own money on the line. If such a thing is implemented in the future there's a chance we will be seeing more extravagant and daring things from our medics.

Too late for Mav's case now, if he didn't get written up for something so petty he wouldn't be blacklisted right now.

[LiL J 29]

@Mercury is just an angry middle aged man. The fucking virgin banned for two weeks cause I called his fuck buddy Canabis girlfriend ugly. 

Go back to Korea u ape 

[Prime 589]

18 minutes ago, hawk said:

Too late for Mav's case now, if he didn't get written up for something so petty he wouldn't be blacklisted right now.

If Mav didn't say what he said he wouldn't of been blacklisted

[hawk 1527]

1 minute ago, Prime said:

If Mav didn't say what he said he wouldn't of been blacklisted

Well him getting in trouble for that is what led to what he said.

[wowwowwabzee 30]

Sounds like something a senior would do on olympus xD

Edited October 5, 2018 by headrip

[Prime 589]

19 minutes ago, hawk said:

Well him getting in trouble for that is what led to what he said.

That's why I posted my idea so in the future we could avoid something like this. Wether or not my idea gets approved or if Mav gets unblacklisted is not my concern. I want to avoid people getting blacklisted for something what was quite impressive. If my idea pass or tweaked that would be cool if it gets ignored then oh well nothing changes. I was only using mav as an example 

[i win 1096]

32 minutes ago, Prime said:

If Mav didn't say what he said he wouldn't of been blacklisted

Was it really that bad though? Dude got removed for saying he wasn't going to follow a rule. Not actually breaking the rule again, just saying he would.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181689/

Edited October 5, 2018 by Mr Majestic

[Prime 589]

14 minutes ago, Mr Majestic said:

Was it really that bad though? Dude got removed for saying he wasn't going to follow a rule. Not actually breaking the rule again, just saying he would.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181689/

In my opinion no it wasn't but it's mercury's call. It was late and I could understand where he was coming from

 

[i win 1096]

19 minutes ago, Prime said:

In my opinion no it wasn't but it's sukis call. It was late and I could understand where he was coming from

It's having an opinion and disagreeing with something that got MAV in so much trouble. You were a good Sr medic Prime.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Mr Majestic

[Prime 589]

8 minutes ago, Mr Majestic said:

It's having an opinion and disagreeing with something that got MAV in so much trouble. You were a good Sr medic Prime.

I have had a lot of conflicting opinions about this situation for the past day or so but I have settled on if I was my choice I wouldn't of Blacklisted him.