Quote

DENIED IDEAS:
Remove Insurance on Ifrits 

• 0 thought given to how this would affect the APD. The APD have no means of blowing up a vehicle or deinsuring it, when you seize it you remove it entirely from the garage. Not sure who gave you this idea but maybe you should think it out before Roundtabling it.
• Reason: The ifrit is one of the most used and heavily armored vehicles on the server. There needs to be a risk to utilizing one beyond a cheap reinsurance fee.

What does that idea have to do with the APD? The idea is saying no more insurance on ifrits. If it blows up it dies forever, removed from garage, also if you seize it, it also dies forever, removed from garage. Why does it matter that the APD is unable to blow up or deinsure a vehicle?

The affect on APD would be that there are less ifrits for them to have to fight, and that people use them less often.

Quote

Make Purposely Rotor Tapping Hawks Against the Rules

• Air vehicles will now be slingable by heavy lift helicopters (Taru/Huron), vehicle needs to have its rotor destroyed to be slingable.
• Makes no sense if water logging is against the rules this should too
• Especially for Hawks used in situations
• Takes away from people stealing hawks (lots of fun)

I feel like this should probably be rewritten something like: "Intentionally rotor tapping an illegal aerial vehicle against an object (E.g: Wall, ground, telephone pole) so that even if it is repaired it can not be flown again".

Why doesn't this apply to all illegal aerial vehicles?
Why doesn't something like this apply to ALL vehicles if it's the same as water logging? 

Questions for how it is currently written:

Does this only apply if the pilot of the ghosthawk rotor taps the ghosthawk they are flying? Or does this also apply to someone else rotor tapping a ghosthawk?

Does this apply to the armed Huron?

Does this also apply to an armed plane, but moving it around so that it's impossible to take off again?

Quote

RPG Rockets can only be acquired with War points or at the Blackwater 

• Approved for removal from crafting, will retain scrap value. RPG rockets and launchers will see an increase in Gear drop events (BW, Escort, Airdrop, etc.)
• Reason: With 500-750 rockets being crafted each month, there is a clear imbalance on the server. Ammo for a weapon capable of this level of destruction should not be this easily obtainable.

Not sure why the amount of rockets crafted is an important stat to mention. Wouldn't rocket kills be the more important stat? Has RPG kills seen a large uptick in use in the last 5 month span? Just because something is crafted a bunch doesn't mean there is an imbalance. 

Wouldn't it be smarter to make Launchers a more rare drop and leave rockets a craftable so you aren't taking value away from scrap? Ironically aren't you just increasing the attainability of said dangerous item? Having it occur more just means more launchers and rockets will exist on the server and more will trickle down through the black market to players. Doesn't sound well thought out.

Quote

Make Scrap Illegal 

• Will seize for $0 as it's a virtual representation of physical items, there are plenty of opportunities to seize the physical version for cash before this.
• Reason: Making scrap illegal will create more of a risk when going to craft endgame level equipment. Scrap is primarily obtained through illegal ways and is used to craft illegal items.

Why? Scrap is already a risk. The places you go to craft are big illegal zones. The places you go to scrap are illegal zones. Getting the chance to scrap things usually means you had to fight someone to get the vehicle in the first place. It takes time to craft items so if someone wants to jump you and take your shit they can. All crafting rooms are tiny cramped spaces that are third person peak abusable and can just be naded once to clear the room. 

This is actually the most retarded change I ever heard in my life. Also this isn't a heavy rp server, its a lite rp server. Just because you obtain it through illegal methods to craft illegal things doesn't mean you gotta make it illegal for what reason? Realism? Then shouldn't the moonshine collection spots be illegal since you need to drive off-road to get to them which is illegal and the items you collect are used to brew an illegal item. 

Why do we you gotta add another risk on top of 16 others. 

23 minutes ago, Gwate said:

illegal since you need to drive off-road to get to them which is illegal

I do not believe driving off road is illegal. I re-read the ticket guide chapter on traffic offenses and the closest thing I could see is reckless driving, which notes/examples says: "Add if a suspect is driving a car in a manner that endangers the public or themselves."

11 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

"Add if a suspect is driving a car in a manner that endangers the public or themselves."

It's one of those things in the rules where its written so broadly that any interpretation can be given to it. Driving offroad being one of those interpretations. 

@ David Miller  the Ifrit thing being in context to APD now makes a lot more sense. And I 100% agree that it would be a debate nightmare if it was a rule change, and turning gray area rules into game mechanics instead is very good. Most of my problems with the rules on any RP server is that your basically trying to cram game mechanics into RP systems (like text messages, or talking to people). That's why wars are nice because it turns killing into a game mechanic rather than RP. So yeah if you could solve stuff like rotor tapping with game mechanics, instead of forcing the players to act like a game mechanic exists when it doesn't that is peak.

13 hours ago, Millennium said:

No one crafts RPGs to not use them. They either get sold on the auction house for ~250k+ or get used after being crafted. It will be increased more at events where you actually have to fight it out. Airdops, BW, Escort, etc. all require you to interact with others players (maybe the off chance an airdrop doesn't) so it will be more rewarding in regard to those events. They will also be purchasable with warpoints, but then you have to fork up warpoints for rockets instead of other things like suppressors, csats, granits, etc.

Crafting is the easiest sleeper thing to do. There is no one ever caught crafting and it is done with ease.

I'll flesh out what I was saying so it makes sense. I asked about kills because the kills from an rpg can ascertain certain things that crafting can't on it's own. Crafting stats can provide information on the frequency of RPG use. Is 500-700 rpgs usual? Is it usually 200? All that information is also not provided which sucks when trying to provide an exact critique.

Kills also provide a better measure of things like effectiveness. I know RPG's are effective but how effective are they? Is the ratio between rpg kills and crafted rpgs 1:1? 2:1? Just because you can craft 500-700 rpgs, it doesn't mean that every rpg is being used effectively. Another thing that isn't mentioned but I can assume is who is often the target for RPGs? I got about 400 hours in Olympus which is still rookie numbers but have rarely if ever experienced rpgs. And considering APD is who asked for the change, I'm assuming RPGs are used against APD in Events majorly 

So we're nuking how easy it is to obtain rockets on a rather rare weapon (while increasing the drop of said weapon and ammo in events now for some reason?) because a small subset of events based players (AEGIS, SNEED, Teamplayers etc.) which are already highly skilled without RPGs, use this weapon the most and can get things like scrap easy because they are huge gangs that can bully essentially anyone they want to. 

Also, these big gangs aren't going to have issues forking over war points for rockets and considering these guys are almost unstoppable at doing events, they don't need to give a fuck about losing out on supressors or csats and granits because they can always get some more doing a BW which they are literally the only people who do these events.

Note: I don't disagree with you gameplay wise that locking powerful things behind hard things is good and also rewarding gameplay. But if you want to actually target nerf these big gang guys, you should make it extremely rare to get RPGs instead of now increasing their drops in airdrops. So now that when your big gangs are doing events, they have to keep in mind that if they play too risky, they risk losing a very hard to obtain weapon. By doing this you don't nerf crafting yet directly nerf the group that the change is intending to target.

I also agree crafting is sleeper but that's a skill issue. Cops and players don't check crafting spots. And you especially don't incentive people checking crafting spots by nerfing them. If you actually want those areas to be fighting spots, you could buff crafting or crafting to more active spots.

14 hours ago, Millennium said:

Scrap and crafting is the definition of EZ mode. There is a slight risk that you run into another civ with scrap on you, and you may lose it. I can safely say, since I have come back to the server, I have NEVER ran into another player doing scrap. The majority of the items crafted from scrap are illegal. If the APD were to catch a player at the abandoned factory, they literally cannot do anything to them unless the items are already crafted. You could be in the middle of crafting and cancel, and just watch the APD leave, and then continue to craft illegal things. There was simply nothing the APD could do against scrap.

Something so useful should have a risk. The APD was basically unable to do anything against it, but now this gives them a chance.

I just gotta disagree. Scraping has never been easy. To get vehicles to scrap you have to fight people. And if you're against a tenacious group, people will chase you to scrap or re-spawn and camp scrap for you.  Obviously this is a vibes based argument but almost all the time I've been to scrap and have not been contested, it was after a full team wipe on a gang who care too much about losing their kit on respawn. And this ignores my complaint that big gangs can almost completely uncontestedly farm scrap.

I do like and actually agree with your reasoning that making scrap illegal allows APD to catch players. But then I'd just have to ask you after this change goes through, how often will APD be at abandoned factories after this change goes through? I can almost promise that most scrap ceased will be from civis driving from one place to another and having scrap in your virtual rather than being caught in the act at factory. And btw, I'm still more in favour to this change to scrap than nerfing crafting.

This also ignores the fact that scrap is already a dangerous thing to do because every zone is already kill on site and if people want they can just kill you and take your scrap. As well you still have to contend with my argument that they should also make moonshine collection spots illegal too then because you can only use those items to craft an illegal item and in the process of obtaining your item, you have to break the law. 

14 hours ago, Millennium said:

Something so useful should have a risk. The APD was basically unable to do anything against it, but now this gives them a chance

Agree. But the better change is moving abandoned factories closer to hot spots to encourage fighting for scrap for crafting by not just APD but by civis. But that is neither here nor there.