On The Topic Of Tazing APD

[Rusty 1673]

3 hours ago, Bubbaloo Burrito said:

You are definately my favorite toxic shitter  

thanks lad. i try not to be

[TheRealKyle 1232]

I mean cop gear is basically civ gear at this point. 

Past 2 days I've had a group of 4 people (BW) and a group of 2 people (/\) text dispatch, "hey, officers here waiting to come on duty" and sure enough there they are, Full PO/Corporal gear.

And I mean sure, looking past the risks Roleplaying with civs in cop gear sometimes is fun as fuck ( @McDili and I did it with BBC about a week ago )

But it's really not worth the risk, i mean if those civs your rping with decide to RDM the fuck out of someone, that's on you, and the APD looks shitty.

I think an issue here (besides making people literally not want to play, which is the biggest issue) is the amount of cop gear these big gangs are getting into there hands. I mean its absolutely ridiculous. Sit in Kavala and fake a hostage call and just have your gang camping the HQ gate with tazers, free cop gear. 30 mins later oooo another set, repeating on and on. 

If theres no SR Apd on or corporals to lethal, these Po's and Deputies do not stand a chance against these big gangs camping HQ's. And that's my biggest issue.

[Welch 61]

13 hours ago, Krisskross said:

As a person who plays cop for the rp this is my perspective. I always agreed with the idea that the apd on Olympus is supposed to be a faction that protects the interests of an individuals' experience. When a terror is called we load up and our first goal is to push the rebels out of the city so that regular civilians don't keep getting shot on sight. When a civilian says they are getting robbed at platinum we load up and stop the robbers and maybe even provide an armed escort. The apd is here to show solo/small groups of players that they are technically never alone when doing legal activities.

Beautifully said, it seems like right now the police are seen as a source of money rather than an adversary for the bad guys. In my opinion, when rebels/bad guys see the cops they should be like "oh shit, it's the cops." but right now it is like "oh shit, cops, let's take all their gear."

[Goodman 1089]

Last Night:

Me and 3 other cops came back to HQ after a redzone raid to process someone. We began to pull the suspects out of the returning car and hear "Hands up or be tazed!". Next thing I know theres 5 'Vigis' (unrelated to captured criminals) who managed to wipe the entire representation of a police force in a city and take us to where we could not be saved due to lack GPS and Coms. Theres no saying: "well don't get taken hostage" to being at HQ (where APD should be dominant) when your unaware of your enemy is, and your only option is to surrender or be immediately tazed by a target not in sight.

This is a clear example of people intentionally using the Vigi license against it's intended purpose to take advantage of a broken mechanic. A representation of how people notice an unbalance in the system and will exploit it because it benefits them and does not put them at risk of administrative action. Something that can only be fixed by reverting the game mechanics to the original and unbroken state.

[Danger 729]

20 minutes ago, Goodman said:

Last Night:

Me and 3 other cops came back to HQ after a redzone raid to process someone. We began to pull the suspects out of the returning car and hear "Hands up or be tazed!". Next thing I know theres 5 'Vigis' (unrelated to captured criminals) who managed to wipe the entire representation of a police force in a city and take us to where we could not be saved due to lack GPS and Coms. Theres no saying: "well don't get taken hostage" to being at HQ (where APD should be dominant) when your unaware of your enemy is, and your only option is to surrender or be immediately tazed by a target not in sight.

This is a clear example people intentionally using the Vigi license against it's intended purpose to take advantage of a broken mechanic. A representation of how people notice an unbalance in the system and will exploit it because it benefits them and does not put them at risk of administrative action. Something that can only be fixed by reverting the game mechanics to the original and unbroken state.

[Bubbaloo - Reusable P Cup 3028]

23 minutes ago, Danger said:

Amen brotha!

[RAYRAY 273]

On 3/7/2017 at 0:30 AM, G.O.A.T. said:

Since certain members of the staff want to approach this from a more factual point of view, the sAPD has compiled some data for the community as a whole to review. Below I cite times recorded from a week ago, and 2 weeks ago. These are significant because this last week is when the ability to restrain cops was starting to be abused.

FACT: Times (amount of time played) by officers 2 weeks ago were 42% higher than they were a week ago.

 

FACT: The time lost across all officers in relation to the dip in activity has resulted in a total loss of 600 hours of cop playtime. In ONE WEEK.

 

 

 

 

It is my opinion that the change where cops were able to be restrained should be reverted, based on this data. I do not want people leaving a faction/the server simply based on an issue that could be very simply resolved.

Let me make this crystal clear: No one has a problem with cops getting tased, but rather the ability for any random with a rook+ to restrain a police officer is the issue at hand. The 3-to-1 rule was not broken before, and it did not need to be fixed. If someone had a problem with an officer not putting their hands up when they were outnumbered, they were dealt with. 

I will leave it to the community to make their own opinion.

Discuss.

it was never an issue till the APD made it an issue and good i hope less cops are on there are usually 16 in a server and they stack servers whenever a fed jail or bw happens anyway 

1 hour ago, Goodman said:

Last Night:

Me and 3 other cops came back to HQ after a redzone raid to process someone. We began to pull the suspects out of the returning car and hear "Hands up or be tazed!". Next thing I know theres 5 'Vigis' (unrelated to captured criminals) who managed to wipe the entire representation of a police force in a city and take us to where we could not be saved due to lack GPS and Coms. Theres no saying: "well don't get taken hostage" to being at HQ (where APD should be dominant) when your unaware of your enemy is, and your only option is to surrender or be immediately tazed by a target not in sight.

This is a clear example of people intentionally using the Vigi license against it's intended purpose to take advantage of a broken mechanic. A representation of how people notice an unbalance in the system and will exploit it because it benefits them and does not put them at risk of administrative action. Something that can only be fixed by reverting the game mechanics to the original and unbroken state.

damn. months and months of cop and you get overpowered one time by vigis we must end this 

cops be like: 

 

don't restrain me then i can't come back after 7 deaths 

[Pledge 2291]

10 hours ago, RAYRAY said:

it was never an issue till the APD made it an issue and good i hope less cops are on there are usually 16 in a server and they stack servers whenever a fed jail or bw happens anyway 

damn. months and months of cop and you get overpowered one time by vigis we must end this 

cops be like: 

 

don't restrain me then i can't come back after 7 deaths 

It's the fact that we are stuck at a disadvantage normally to civilians, and we rely on not having NLR to resolve situations. If we are able to be taken hostage for 15 minutes you will be able to neutralize the entire APD in minutes. @G.O.A.T. is being completely reasonable here by saying that this is not a balanced mechanic to have in game. Even after the update we still have officers getting tased, granted it has been  reduced in frequency a bit. We cannot do our jobs if we are stuck in your zip-ties for 15 minutes.

[RAYRAY 273]

2 hours ago, Pledge said:

It's the fact that we are stuck at a disadvantage normally to civilians, and we rely on not having NLR to resolve situations. If we are able to be taken hostage for 15 minutes you will be able to neutralize the entire APD in minutes. @G.O.A.T. is being completely reasonable here by saying that this is not a balanced mechanic to have in game. Even after the update we still have officers getting tased, granted it has been  reduced in frequency a bit. We cannot do our jobs if we are stuck in your zip-ties for 15 minutes.

still hate the idea of not being able to taze and restrain them if i feel like it an i haven't even done it one time on olympus .. 

[aaaaaaaaaaaaaa 232]

So I've seen a lot threads recently about APD members being tazed and restrained and I thought that I would address this from the civilian point of view.

1. "It's overpowered/unfair"

Think about the amount of buffs that the APD has received Vs. civilians. Pretty much all civs have received is GA rigs, which IMO was canceled out by removing CSAT, and being able to taze cops. Cops used to be p07 for deps and mx for corporal. all the guns have been upgraded, giving deputies 4 shot stings and now 3 shot vermins. same with other ranks. Also, cops have received the ghosthawk and taze buffs, as long as many small rule changes which benefit APD such as rules on when guns hot on a ghosthawk is ok or when you can taze people. Also the standard cop (P.O.) has a better gun, and even or better armor cause of the new taze buff. 

2. "I just play cop for the rp and getting tazed is no fun"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFL8W12ESVg You mean like this RP? 90% of the time you get processed by a deputies who just follows list and sends you to jail, and if you request a higher up, even if they are 10 feet away they will deny you cause they are busy tanking shots with level 5 vests and flying around in buffed ghosthawks.

3. "OMG. I HATE this new thing. Everyone that agrees that this should be a thing does NOT play cop. It is the most annoying thing in the whole world. Fucking being tazed, retrained and robbed three times in an hour. Fuck that. I have never really been salty salty in this game but this really messed it up for me. I hope something is done about this."

You think civs love spending 80 mins in jail? Also if its happening 3 times in an hour then it might be time to consider not RetardRush^TMing into kavala square alone. Roll around with a group of people and this will only happen once in a while. 90% of the cops I have tazed are just sitting alone in kavala square like idiots. get some backup.

4. "You could just get cop gear by 3-1 or doing a hostage situation." No you can't, and here's why. Many times I have tried to 3-1 cops and they pull one of 2 things. One, they start pulling their gun out and try to lethal, get sprayed down, and when you confront them about it claim a "tactical advantage" where there was none. The other one is they try to pull a gun out, get sprayed down, and say "oh but there was a deputy 50 meters down the street so technically I wasn't outnumbered" even though they get shot every time. Hostage situations is even worse. You have to hope that the cops are feeling generous and that theres no sAPD on. If theres no sAPD on, a lot of the time you get offered a p07 for 10 hostages, they then wait for you to ask for a PO loadout and then tell you negotiations failed, because cops don't give a fuck about the hostages. And sAPD is even worse. I used to do many hostage situations, and never was I negotiated with by sAPD. During one of the situations where they tried to shoot us, we ended up killing some of the hostages, and their answer was "there was a medic nearby so who cares".

5. "Cop playtime is being lost"

Who cares? Theres enough cops online as it is. It used to be having 5 cops on was a rarity, now anytime from 3pm to 3am there is 10-20 cops online

6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIiGUbpBkrU Imagine if a civilian was restrained by APD, driven around for 10 minutes and then taken to DP 8, the middle of nowhere, and the second their hex shows back up a civ heli shows up to save them. It would be an instant meta ban, but when cops do it they don't even get a demotion. And I know they weren't following us because those cops came from athira, and the last location artemis gave them was weed pro so there is no way they saw us. 

Did I miss anything? Feel free to disagree, but try to keep it relatively civilized. 

 

[bigSMOKE 924]

i loled @ the video you posted bc you think you know what the rules are but you look dumb 

[aaaaaaaaaaaaaa 232]

9 minutes ago, bigSMOKE said:

i loled @ the video you posted bc you think you know what the rules are but you look dumb 

?? I never claimed any rules were broken, just that it was shitty RP and that there is no charge for being in an illegal area.

[bigSMOKE 924]

Just now, Berg02 said:

?? I never claimed any rules were broken, just that it was shitty RP and that there is no charge for being in an illegal area.

they still can impound your vehicle and search you, they aren't going to just let you go and hope you leave the zone with all the mushrooms in your car that makes no sense, you're mad at the rp then you're yelling at him telling him to let you go because he can't add charges to you, he could search you and if there was to be processed mushrooms there is charges there. Unfortunately you didn't get done but the point then was just to spoil your run since it's illegal.

i wouldn't rp with someone in mushroom pro salty when they get busted either, in the video its clear youre not even trying to rp but rather trying to keep the mushrooms in your car and for some reason expect them to just unrestrain you in the redzone and let you keep the stuff

[javins beast 36]

i think you should be able to taze and APD officer because in real life you can taze an officer but i think maybe there should be a penalization to tasing i think it should give like a 15-20k bounty on you only on a LEO if hes tazed maybe that could be a consideration.

[iPopsicle 2205]

2 minutes ago, javins beast said:

i think you should be able to taze and APD officer because in real life you can taze an officer but i think maybe there should be a penalization to tasing i think it should give like a 15-20k bounty on you only on a LEO if hes tazed maybe that could be a consideration.

If the APD successfully catches you and you tazed them, typically they would add attempted manslaughter as the bullets harm the officer. I feel like having an automatic charge would be good to have, and quite possibly if you have 5 or more of this taxing charge you can be sent straight to jail. Just an idea. 

[aaaaaaaaaaaaaa 232]

8 minutes ago, Ignis said:

If the APD successfully catches you and you tazed them, typically they would add attempted manslaughter as the bullets harm the officer. I feel like having an automatic charge would be good to have, and quite possibly if you have 5 or more of this taxing charge you can be sent straight to jail. Just an idea. 

 

13 minutes ago, javins beast said:

i think you should be able to taze and APD officer because in real life you can taze an officer but i think maybe there should be a penalization to tasing i think it should give like a 15-20k bounty on you only on a LEO if hes tazed maybe that could be a consideration.

I completely agree.

[PoptartRex 3294]

35 minutes ago, Berg02 said:

1. "It's overpowered/unfair"

Think about the amount of buffs that the APD has received Vs. civilians. Pretty much all civs have received is GA rigs, which IMO was canceled out by removing CSAT, and being able to taze cops. Cops used to be p07 for deps and mx for corporal. all the guns have been upgraded, giving deputies 4 shot stings and now 3 shot vermins. same with other ranks. Also, cops have received the ghosthawk and taze buffs, as long as many small rule changes which benefit APD such as rules on when guns hot on a ghosthawk is ok or when you can taze people. Also the standard cop (P.O.) has a better gun, and even or better armor cause of the new taze buff. 

2. "I just play cop for the rp and getting tazed is no fun"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFL8W12ESVg You mean like this RP? 90% of the time you get processed by a deputies who just follows list and sends you to jail, and if you request a higher up, even if they are 10 feet away they will deny you cause they are busy tanking shots with level 5 vests and flying around in buffed ghosthawks.

3. "OMG. I HATE this new thing. Everyone that agrees that this should be a thing does NOT play cop. It is the most annoying thing in the whole world. Fucking being tazed, retrained and robbed three times in an hour. Fuck that. I have never really been salty salty in this game but this really messed it up for me. I hope something is done about this."

You think civs love spending 80 mins in jail? Also if its happening 3 times in an hour then it might be time to consider not RetardRush^TMing into kavala square alone. Roll around with a group of people and this will only happen once in a while. 90% of the cops I have tazed are just sitting alone in kavala square like idiots. get some backup.

4. "You could just get cop gear by 3-1 or doing a hostage situation." No you can't, and here's why. Many times I have tried to 3-1 cops and they pull one of 2 things. One, they start pulling their gun out and try to lethal, get sprayed down, and when you confront them about it claim a "tactical advantage" where there was none. The other one is they try to pull a gun out, get sprayed down, and say "oh but there was a deputy 50 meters down the street so technically I wasn't outnumbered" even though they get shot every time. Hostage situations is even worse. You have to hope that the cops are feeling generous and that theres no sAPD on. If theres no sAPD on, a lot of the time you get offered a p07 for 10 hostages, they then wait for you to ask for a PO loadout and then tell you negotiations failed, because cops don't give a fuck about the hostages. And sAPD is even worse. I used to do many hostage situations, and never was I negotiated with by sAPD. During one of the situations where they tried to shoot us, we ended up killing some of the hostages, and their answer was "there was a medic nearby so who cares".

5. "Cop playtime is being lost"

Who cares? Theres enough cops online as it is. It used to be having 5 cops on was a rarity, now anytime from 3pm to 3am there is 10-20 cops online

6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIiGUbpBkrU Imagine if a civilian was restrained by APD, driven around for 10 minutes and then taken to DP 8, the middle of nowhere, and the second their hex shows back up a civ heli shows up to save them. It would be an instant meta ban, but when cops do it they don't even get a demotion. And I know they weren't following us because those cops came from athira, and the last location artemis gave them was weed pro so there is no way they saw us. 

1) There are much better ways to level the playing field. While the ability to restrain APD members certainly changes the playing field, it breaks the system. In fact, it actually doesn't level the playing field really at all considering the situations in which it is used most were pretty balanced pre-update (Thinking of a normal fight between Patrol Officers and Rebels)

2) You forget to consider that the greatest RP opportunities normally don't present themselves after you get caught either fighting or evading the police. They also don't present themselves well after you start quoting rules like crazy (Berg I don't think I have seen a situation in which the APD has caught you and you don't quote rules). 

3) Being tazed within a few minutes doesn't necessarily mean that the officers are "retard rushing". Most situations are Patrol Officers and lower getting caught and there isn't much they can do and it's hard to get backup when a) The entire force in the area is tazed. b.) The rest of the APD are across the map. c) The rest of the officers are likely fighting a losing battle, as they are probably out numbered and out-geared, with the only advantage they have is a slightly better caliber weapon. 

4) If an officer is deeming the situation "tactical advantage" and the situation clearly shows lack of value of life by the officer, REPORT IT. The sAPD have a system and it works. Use it. sAPD are on and you are doing a hostage situation? Don't expect to be the only captor. Get your guys to fortify the area so the APD can't end it without failing. Don't expect to be in the middle of the square and have a hostage situation go completely fine. If the sAPD fail to stop the situation and hostages get killed, depending on the situation I would attempt to speak to a Deputy Chief or higher. And if that doesn't work then a player report will do. 

5) The cops are one of the major factions on this server. A decline this significant is a major problem as it could easily lead to a slippery slope down later. It is the first sign that there IS a problem. With your logic, the civilian population could decrease from a 100 person average to a 60 person average but "who cares, we still have 60 civilians on average". <-- This is the same fight as "cartel life dying" Whilst the servers were still at max population, a lot of well known players stopped playing and scats took up the majority of the server slots. 

I can't answer six as I am not sAPD and I feel there are missing facts. 

[Guest]

The shit is stupid cops shouldn't be able to be tazed and restrained ya buncha damn heathens. 

[aaaaaaaaaaaaaa 232]

Just now, TheCmdrRex said:

1) There are much better ways to level the playing field. While the ability to restrain APD members certainly changes the playing field, it breaks the system. In fact, it actually doesn't level the playing field really at all considering the situations in which it is used most were pretty balanced pre-update (Thinking of a normal fight between Patrol Officers and Rebels)

2) You forget to consider that the greatest RP opportunities normally don't present themselves after you get caught either fighting or evading the police. They also don't present themselves well after you start quoting rules like crazy (Berg I don't think I have seen a situation in which the APD has caught you and you don't quote rules). 

3) Being tazed within a few minutes doesn't necessarily mean that the officers are "retard rushing". Most situations are Patrol Officers and lower getting caught and there isn't much they can do and it's hard to get backup when a) The entire force in the area is tazed. b.) The rest of the APD are across the map. c) The rest of the officers are likely fighting a losing battle, as they are probably out numbered and out-geared, with the only advantage they have is a slightly better caliber weapon. 

4) If an officer is deeming the situation "tactical advantage" and the situation clearly shows lack of value of life by the officer, REPORT IT. The sAPD have a system and it works. Use it. sAPD are on and you are doing a hostage situation? Don't expect to be the only captor. Get your guys to fortify the area so the APD can't end it without failing. Don't expect to be in the middle of the square and have a hostage situation go completely fine. If the sAPD fail to stop the situation and hostages get killed, depending on the situation I would attempt to speak to a Deputy Chief or higher. And if that doesn't work then a player report will do. 

5) The cops are one of the major factions on this server. A decline this significant is a major problem as it could easily lead to a slippery slope down later. It is the first sign that there IS a problem. With your logic, the civilian population could decrease from a 100 person average to a 60 person average but "who cares, we still have 60 civilians on average". <-- This is the same fight as "cartel life dying" Whilst the servers were still at max population, a lot of well known players stopped playing and scats took up the majority of the server slots. 

I can't answer six as I am not sAPD and I feel there are missing facts. 

1. I think that it does level the field, and forces cops to use better tactics and roll around in groups

2. I was simply asking what i was being charged with? thats not quoting rules?? 

3. They are capable of not rolling around alone so "outnumbered" is false. they have better guns when it comes to tazers so "outgunned" is false and the tazer buff they got makes their armor equal or better so "outgeared" is false.

4. We were in a house and had 4 hostage takers. thats why we were able to kill many of they hostages. 2 of the sAPD were deputy chiefs lmao.

5. Except for the fact that cop slots cant be taken over by scats, its a whitelist faction and 10-20 cops at a time is more than enough.

 

[Danger 729]

1 hour ago, Berg02 said:

So I've seen a lot threads recently about APD members being tazed and restrained

Why not post on one of those then? Don't need 20 threads about the samething.

[TheRandomOne 477]

Yo, you used retardrush and TMed  it like I did before,nice.

[TheRandomOne 477]

3 minutes ago, Danger said:

Why not post on one of those then? Don't need 20 threads about the samething.

In his defense, we don't need a bunch of Care Bear ass cops,but we have those too.

[aaaaaaaaaaaaaa 232]

2 minutes ago, TheRandomOne said:

Yo, you used retardrush and TMed  it like I did before,nice.

I'll be talking to the trademark office about this

[PoptartRex 3294]

11 minutes ago, Berg02 said:

1. I think that it does level the field, and forces cops to use better tactics and roll around in groups

2. I was simply asking what i was being charged with? thats not quoting rules?? 

3. They are capable of not rolling around alone so "outnumbered" is false. they have better guns when it comes to tazers so "outgunned" is false and the tazer buff they got makes their armor equal or better so "outgeared" is false.

4. We were in a house and had 4 hostage takers. thats why we were able to kill many of they hostages. 2 of the sAPD were deputy chiefs lmao.

5. Except for the fact that cop slots cant be taken over by scats, its a whitelist faction and 10-20 cops at a time is more than enough.

1) Maybe after the situation has already started. Most times it's getting engaged via text and have less than 10 seconds to react before your tazed and restrained though. By then usually some cops are already restrained and it limits the numbers able to respond. 

2) Yeah I talked to those officers about how they handled that situation. Not great RP at all. (They were mostly salty though as they were taken hostage from you prior to that situation)

3) Outnumbered is true though seeing how it's large groups of people with tasers that are the problem. The taser buff also seems more like a temporary fix as well.

4) Player report then. 

5) The scats were a separate comparison. I will also argue your information on 10 - 20 cops at a time. At peaks times and with no federal event active it is usually less than 10. 

[J O E 317]

Simple. If you don't like this new dynamic system then don't play cop. Haven't been robbed or anything since its been out so I don't see the problem.