House Raiding Debate

[Richard 595]

Just now, Claysive said:

 

It is true. What do you mean? I posted that section of the handbook to show you that it is. Calling the APD for assistance and reporting illegal activity are two different situations. Someone was saying that medics call APD all the time and lead them to drug busts. This goes against the handbook. A medic calling you and saying "hey, Joe is at coke pro" is not allowed. A medic calling you and saying "hey, i need assistance at coke pro, shots fired" is. 

I’m banging my head into a wall because he “agrees with you”, but he’s disagreeing with me lol.  

I guess it’s like the APD handbook.  If you quote it, it doesn’t mean the same thing as reading it situationally.

[LULA 2022 - PT 13 490]

25 minutes ago, RDyer216 said:

Are u sure you’re a cop?  This is the first time I’ve seen a cop admit to any flaws.  Especially one that calls out the truth with current sAPD mentality and directions.

I'm a career cop and my loyalties 100% lie with the APD at the end of the day, honestly it feels like all the seniors who were qualified like Rex who made chief at 16 due to an outstanding work ethic or Dante who had served in the military were able to look at these issues from multiple perspectives and find a solution that worked for most of the population, when they left a decent chunk of cops with a lot of life experience and people skills left too, as much as it was a meme @Deputy Dog really was the APD dad because he managed to be harsh, fair and loving all at the same time. That man dealt with my shenanigans multiple times and I can confidently say I liked him enough that disappointing him hurt more than the punishments I'd get when I fucked up, that level of class and skill isn't really seen anymore.

 

At some point in the last few weeks the SAPD moved from being mostly players with life skills, professionalism, love for RP and people skills/leadership to college kids and high schoolers with no major outside skills to give the force and who mostly got there due to either networking, playing cop 24/7 or a mixture of both. I know of some seniors who have openly stated they gave up on civ and devoted all their free time to the PD grind. I honestly love this server and the APD, and there are some seniors who give me hope that maybe everything might unfuck itself in the future but I don't agree with it's current direction or leadership.

 

People always seem to forget that criticism isn't hate, I criticize the APD so much because I love it and want to see it improve. It really makes me sad to see the direction things are going, the APDs become so polarized that the officers who get ahead the fastest are the ones who don't rock the boat and act as yes men to all our policies. I realized a while ago that being the way I am and constantly going against some of the APD effectively killed whatever "career" I may have had but I like it too much to not stick around.

[SPBojo 6863]

4 minutes ago, sploding said:

At some point in the last few weeks the SAPD moved from being mostly players with life skills, professionalism, love for RP and people skills/leadership to college kids and high schoolers with no major outside skills to give the force and who mostly got there due to either networking, playing cop 24/7 or a mixture of both. I know of some seniors who have openly stated they gave up on civ and devoted all their free time to the PD grind. I honestly love this server and the APD, and there are some seniors who give me hope that maybe everything might unfuck itself in the future but I don't agree with it's current direction or leadership.

I take back everything mean i have ever said to you.

[LULA 2022 - PT 13 490]

9 minutes ago, Bojo said:

I take back everything mean i have ever said to you.

Give me a few hours and I'll go back to being the tard we all know and love lol.

[ehKyler 17]

4 hours ago, RDyer216 said:

Opening a door itself shouldn’t be enough to search.  Nor should having a bounty because the player wasn’t ID’d.  And if he wasn’t engaged, why would it be searched?

Players can open all sorts of doors on the map.  APD COULD use these loop holes to mark locations of certain houses on a map for future reference.

Oh wait, I think this has already been started in a few DP’s such as DP22-D25

 

AMEN

[Unjo 1818]

3 hours ago, Hoonter said:

you're own rules

 

3 hours ago, Hoonter said:

you're own handbook

 

2 hours ago, Hoonter said:

read you're handbook 

When did homicide get sgt

[Richard 595]

1 minute ago, Unjo said:

 

 

When did homicide get sgt

I always have the urge to correct people, but I would pass Bojo in threads if I did.  People are not educated around here.

[SPBojo 6863]

Just now, RDyer216 said:

I always have the urge to correct people, but I would pass Bojo in threads if I did.  People are not educated around here.

das toxic

[Lex yo 373]

sAPD is a joke. There will be nothing that me or any civ could say to actually change anything and that's sad. Doesn't matter if a sAPD blatantly breaks rules, because if you're lucky the most that will happen is a slap on the wrist.

At the end of the day R&R is the only faction that the people get held accountable for their actions. Im at the point now were I respect vigilantes more than APD and that is truly sad. Don't get me wrong their are some solid APD members who aren't 16 and driven with power, but most of sAPD is corrupt and that's the truth so don't @ me.

And don't even bother saying that IA reports are taken seriously because their fucking not. It's really fucking sad that a deputy is treated wayyy more harshly than a corp or sAPD. I don't hate the APD, I just can't fucking stand how it's ran, there's no effort to properly structure it, and every sAPD is just to fucking daft to realize it.

I've said my piece, let the sAPD downvotes roll in.

 

 

[LULA 2022 - PT 13 490]

7 minutes ago, Lex yo said:

sAPD is a joke. There will be nothing that me or any civ could say to actually change anything and that's sad. Doesn't matter if a sAPD blatantly breaks rules, because if you're lucky the most that will happen is a slap on the wrist.

At the end of the day R&R is the only faction that the people get held accountable for their actions. Im at the point now were I respect vigilantes more than APD and that is truly sad. Don't get me wrong their are some solid APD members who aren't 16 and driven with power, but most of sAPD is corrupt and that's the truth so don't @ me.

And don't even bother saying that IA reports are taken seriously because their fucking not. It's really fucking sad that a deputy is treated wayyy more harshly than a corp or sAPD. I don't hate the APD, I just can't fucking stand how it's ran, there's no effort to properly structure it, and every sAPD is just to fucking daft to realize it.

I've said my piece, let the sAPD downvotes roll in.

 

 

Wasnt there a corp who got demoted for bolt cutting into the fed only for someone else to get away with it not too much later?

 

I think SAPD should be held accountable to a board of civs and OS but with how many admins are in the APD I doubt it would do anything.

[CIA JOSH 2895]

5 hours ago, RDyer216 said:

Players can open all sorts of doors on the map.  APD COULD use these loop holes to mark locations of certain houses on a map for future reference.

I mean you would need keys to be able to open the door to a house of someone that is online

[maxg 1289]

7 hours ago, RDyer216 said:

Players can open all sorts of doors on the map.  APD COULD use these loop holes to mark locations of certain houses on a map for future reference.

 

 

2 hours ago, RDyer216 said:

People are not educated around here.

1 hour ago, communistjosh said:

I mean you would need keys to be able to open the door to a house of someone that is online

 

lmfao 

[Loony REAL 2]

10 hours ago, ehKyler said:

So yesterday I was chillin in DP 11, when a cop car was coming up from the distance, not code 3 or anything. I see that I have a 173k bounty and an illegal weapon so I run through through my house, in through the front door and out the back, keep in mind they weren't initiated on me, or said anything to me. I didn't store anything in my house, or take anything out I didn't even look in the trunk. All I did was run through my house. Next thing you know my house is being raided, doors broken down and I was like okay thats fine they wont find me there. THEN I GET A MESSAGE SAYING THEY ARE SEARCHING MY HOUSE, and they ended up seizing 8 mil worth of drugs.

I just think that the house raiding probable cause is kind of stupid and should be nerfed, for all they know I could have been at someone else's house with keys, or cops can just CAMP for hours at a house with a lot of drugs and just siezing everything after seeing someone come out the front door when they re-spawned, and the fact that I wasn't even in the house or initiated makes it 10x worse, and I was veryyy upset.

I think the rule should be changed if the cops visibly see someone accessing the house, or if they go in and come out with a different load out, or if the cops are initiated on you and you lock the doors. etc should be probable cause. However not being initiated and running THROUGH your house shouldn't be probable cause, because they shouldn't have the need to search the house if no one is in it.

Opinions? +1 or -1

I agree, this is one smart man and I think he has a point. This rule needs to be Reformed in a way to give the APD a Nerf of searching and seizing things out of a house. Since the APD was not initiated with Kyler at the time, how did Kyler know that his house was in danger, he simply opened the front door walked out the back. To me (whisper) it sounds like cops are a little money hungry. Why should a cop, be a cop if they are going to stretch the rules in a way to search a house because they want money, aren't they supposed to enforce those rules to stop people from stretching them?

[NexIV 139]

10 hours ago, sploding said:

The main problem people are having with the APD right now is excessive searching/camping of houses, excessive uses of specialized gear by seniors and being on rebels and warzone too much. Most of the issues civs have with us are caused by an overpowered SAPD with no exterior oversight, the attitude of the chief and the newest wave of seniors shows this isn't changing and will get worse as the newer seniors progress and appoint SAPD members to a point where it'll be systemic in about 12-30 months.

 

[Google 872]

Honestly it's stupid asf. The fact that cops can just fly over a city and spot a criminal interacting with a house then search it when he leaves it absolutely stupid. In my opinion they should have to at least be initiated with him while seeing him interact with his house.

7 hours ago, Lex yo said:

sAPD is a joke. There will be nothing that me or any civ could say to actually change anything and that's sad. Doesn't matter if a sAPD blatantly breaks rules, because if you're lucky the most that will happen is a slap on the wrist.

At the end of the day R&R is the only faction that the people get held accountable for their actions. Im at the point now were I respect vigilantes more than APD and that is truly sad. Don't get me wrong their are some solid APD members who aren't 16 and driven with power, but most of sAPD is corrupt and that's the truth so don't @ me.

And don't even bother saying that IA reports are taken seriously because their fucking not. It's really fucking sad that a deputy is treated wayyy more harshly than a corp or sAPD. I don't hate the APD, I just can't fucking stand how it's ran, there's no effort to properly structure it, and every sAPD is just to fucking daft to realize it.

I've said my piece, let the sAPD downvotes roll in.

 

 

Straight Facts.

Asylum sAPD is way more professional than Olympus sAPD

Hopefully that realization will impel them to fix it. Doubt it though.

Edited March 17, 2019 by Google

[Richard 595]

1 hour ago, Google said:

Straight Facts.

Asylum sAPD is way more professional than Olympus sAPD

 Hopefully that realization will impel them to fix it. Doubt it though.

As much as I hate to admit that asylum is better than Olympus in anyway, this is straight facts!

 

[Titimus 4]

Searching a house can be a big hit to a civilian financially, but to a cop they gain some, but have the time of their life doing it. I don't see why the rules are so lax on searching them, because it's a big deal when it happens. I think the same thing applies to 3-1, in the aspect if you tase a cop and there is another within 50m, 3 people cannot restrain the one downed. How is that even remotely fair?

[|REAL| Boing 172]

Lets step back.. this isnt a hate post for APD. Apd is essential to server life. It maintains balance with the rest of the factions and prevents any one gang from taking the whole map over and doing whatever they want. While Apd may be taking a turn for the worse, they aren't the only ones in charge. OS ultimately steps in when things get bad, and as the civ council is supposed to we will continue bringing the issues up in meetings with OS to drive change.

What this post is saying: APD can pretty much search any house they want so long as a criminal has touched said house.

That needs to change. Specifically, the APD should need to be engaged with the person who touched the house, and just entering the house shouldnt be grounds to search. If they barricade into the home, search it. If they interact with inventory while next to/inside the home, search it. But if they open a door and close the doot and run out the back, you shouldn't be able to do anything to that house.

@Pledge

Real cops dont search houses that are empty without a specific search warrant. And it's extremely difficult to obtain a search warrant to look for illegal items. Warrants for search are usually obtained on the grounds that someone is held up in the home that is wanted for arrest. Cops are only able to search houses if a warrant has been issued, or they make an arrest on the property and believe there to be illegal items on the property. Well known drug dealers houses get searched occasionally, but only if there's a pending investigation into that home owner.

I say this because you brought IRL cops into this thread, and my point is this: This isnt how APD does things. This isn't real life. It's a lite rp server, and you can't compare what real cops do to what olympus cops do. The rules are entirely different.

[Ryne 156]

CHANGE! 

 

[Mr GOAT 2081]

1 hour ago, |REAL| Boing said:

APD can pretty much search any house they want so long as a criminal has touched said house.

Correct, as it should be. Would make literally 0 sense to give players the ability to put something in their house without a chance of losing it...simply because we “weren’t engaged”.

Also, IRL, if a cop saw you putting an *entire tempest device* worth of weed/meth/coke in your house

there’d be a lot more than a simple search warrant, bud

[Millennium 5800]

On 3/17/2019 at 6:29 AM, RDyer216 said:

As much as I hate to admit that asylum is better than Olympus in anyway, this is straight facts!

 

$10 says you have no time on Asylum

[indian 759]

On 3/17/2019 at 5:17 AM, Google said:

Asylum sAPD is way more professional than Olympus sAPD

^ played asylum for close to a month and this was the first thing I got out of interactions with their whole police force, not only sAPD. Masta B or whatever the fuck his name is, is an actual fucking legend.

[Hoonter 232]

On 3/17/2019 at 5:17 AM, Google said:

Asylum sAPD is way more professional than Olympus sAPD

Hopefully that realization will impel them to fix it. Doubt it though.

Could you define professional and what it means to you and were you see members of our sAPD lacking? 

[Lex yo 373]

7 minutes ago, Hoonter said:

Could you define professional and what it means to you and were you see members of our sAPD lacking? 

lol

[ehKyler 17]

2 hours ago, |REAL| Boing said:

Lets step back.. this isnt a hate post for APD. Apd is essential to server life. It maintains balance with the rest of the factions and prevents any one gang from taking the whole map over and doing whatever they want. While Apd may be taking a turn for the worse, they aren't the only ones in charge. OS ultimately steps in when things get bad, and as the civ council is supposed to we will continue bringing the issues up in meetings with OS to drive change.

What this post is saying: APD can pretty much search any house they want so long as a criminal has touched said house.

That needs to change. Specifically, the APD should need to be engaged with the person who touched the house, and just entering the house shouldnt be grounds to search. If they barricade into the home, search it. If they interact with inventory while next to/inside the home, search it. But if they open a door and close the doot and run out the back, you shouldn't be able to do anything to that house.

@Pledge

Real cops dont search houses that are empty without a specific search warrant. And it's extremely difficult to obtain a search warrant to look for illegal items. Warrants for search are usually obtained on the grounds that someone is held up in the home that is wanted for arrest. Cops are only able to search houses if a warrant has been issued, or they make an arrest on the property and believe there to be illegal items on the property. Well known drug dealers houses get searched occasionally, but only if there's a pending investigation into that home owner.

I say this because you brought IRL cops into this thread, and my point is this: This isnt how APD does things. This isn't real life. It's a lite rp server, and you can't compare what real cops do to what olympus cops do. The rules are entirely different.

yes ^ this sums all my emotions into one, MAKE A CHANGE!