Suggested Titan Engagement/Rule Additions

[DubbedSoap 80]

 

The current Titan Engagement Rules are fairly thought out and cover most scenarios. In my experience using a titan launcher, there are a few areas that I feel can be scuffed or the vast majority of players and support team members are unsure of. No more "grey area" excuses when "grey area" can be eliminated with a few added lines in the rulebook.

 

Share your thoughts, and let me know if I need to explain and of the suggestions. Thank you all and stay healthy out there!

Green Text indicates suggested rule addition.

 

Chapter 14: Explosive Items

1. When using a titan on aerial vehicles the pilot must first be directly notified stating your demands and that you are using a Titan, if demands are not met (within reason) you may fire on the air unit with said titan. If a titan message is sent during an active engagement and the engagement lasts longer then 5 minutes, the player may still fire the titan at the pilot that was messaged if demands were still not met.
2. Titans may be used without texts in illegal areas or if the initial engagement was in an illegal area. EX: Bob shoots at Joe at drug dealer as Joe takes off in a hummingbird, and then Bob titans Joe even though Joe was technically out of the illegal zone at that point.
3. Titans may also be fired at ground vehicles and other players via standard RP rules.  Misuse of Titan launchers to kill restrained players or destroy vehicles for may still result in administrative action. If these scenarios arise action will be taken entirely at staff discretion.
4. When a player is directly fired upon by an aerial vehicle, the player may return fire with a titan without sending a text first. (Gang engagement does not apply for this rule). 
5. Landing an aerial vehicle only ends the titan engagement if all demands have been met. EX: "Auto hover and land or be titaned." Otherwise the titan is still hot even if the aerial vehicle takes off again.
6. Players may fire a titan without sending a text first if there is an enemy gang member anywhere in the aircraft. Not necessarily the pilot. 
7. Titan engagement will engage the aerial vehicle itself. If a players send a text, to the pilot "Bob" of the black hummingbird, it does not matter if "Joe" takes controls or if "Bob" lands and "Joe" hops in the pilot seat. The aircraft is engaged.
8. If a player's personal aerial vehicle is stolen they may titan it without an engagement text.

[PJ. 271]

15 minutes ago, Soap del Mar said:

Players may fire a titan without sending a text first if there is an enemy gang member anywhere in the aircraft. Not necessarily the pilot. 

Medic: Hey, need a ride
Civilian #1: Sure thing!
Civilian #2 has fired a titan at Medic
Civilian #2 has killed Medic
Civilian #2 has killed enemy gang member #1

 

I actually had this happen one time when I was on civ. Literally blasted us all out the air, kinda hilarious.

P.S. Im pretty sure 5 & 7 are already part of the rules but are just not laid out. Like if you tell a guy hands up or die and he puts his hands up and proceeds to drop them and run away you can blast him. Same with Titans.

[Y A Y O 235]

whos joe

[SPBojo 6862]

That number 6 one can fuck right off.

[Montez 421]

"or if the initial engagement was in an illegal area. EX: Bob shoots at Joe at drug dealer as Joe takes off in a hummingbird, and then Bob titans Joe even though Joe was technically out of the illegal zone at that point."
I feel like this could get abused, WAY too easily. ex: pull up to any red zone on the map, shoot a singular shot at any hell within redzone, you can now titan them for the next 5 minutes. imo if you want to titan them that badly, titan them in the redzone

"Landing an aerial vehicle only ends the titan engagement if all demands have been met. EX: "Auto hover and land or be titaned." Otherwise the titan is still hot even if the aerial vehicle takes off again."

pretty sure this is already a thing, but if you really want to be safe you can just say "land and stay landed for 5 minutes"

6. is the literal definition of "cross-fire"
7. makes sense but idk if it currently works that way so +1
8. is dumb as fuck imo 

[DubbedSoap 80]

Just now, PJ. said:

I actually had this happen one time when I was on civ. Literally blasted us all out the air, kinda hilarious.

P.S. Im pretty sure 5 & 7 are already part of the rules but are just not laid out. Like if you tell a guy hands up or die and he puts his hands up and proceeds to drop them and run away you can blast him. Same with Titans.

You bring up a good point, maybe #6 isn't as viable as I thought.

As for the other two, yeah I play it on a case-by-case basis. Our support team has no idea what any of the titan rules are, much less the vast majority of civilians. Rule clarifications or updates occasionally would be a nice best-practice towards eliminating grey areas.

Just now, yung yayo said:

whos joe

typically some shitty roleplayer like @Noahhh!

Just now, SPBojo said:

That number 6 one can fuck right off.

Others agree

Just now, Montez said:

"or if the initial engagement was in an illegal area. EX: Bob shoots at Joe at drug dealer as Joe takes off in a hummingbird, and then Bob titans Joe even though Joe was technically out of the illegal zone at that point."
I feel like this could get abused, WAY too easily. ex: pull up to any red zone on the map, shoot a singular shot at any hell within redzone, you can now titan them for the next 5 minutes. imo if you want to titan them that badly, titan them in the redzone

It's like warning shots... the heli has to realize it. I cannot just sneak in with a suppressed 9mm and pop 1 shot. It's way more scuffed the way it currently is. It takes more time to lock on to a hummingbird than it does for a hummingbird to fly out of a small red zone (basically anything that isnt rebel). Not quite seeing how it would be abused. 

Just now, Montez said:

6. is the literal definition of "cross-fire"

Not quite, do this today and you get banned.

Just now, Montez said:

8. is dumb as fuck imo

How come?

[Zahzi 3013]

55 minutes ago, Soap del Mar said:

Players may fire a titan without sending a text first if there is an enemy gang member anywhere in the aircraft. Not necessarily the pilot. 

This is already the case, confirmed it in the admin chat a couple months ago. Just be careful to not fuck it up.

56 minutes ago, Soap del Mar said:

Landing an aerial vehicle only ends the titan engagement if all demands have been met. EX: "Auto hover and land or be titaned." Otherwise the titan is still hot even if the aerial vehicle takes off again.

Pretty sure this is already treated this way; same as saying "hands up or die" and having the dude double tap tab and run away.

57 minutes ago, Soap del Mar said:

or if the initial engagement was in an illegal area. EX: Bob shoots at Joe at drug dealer as Joe takes off in a hummingbird, and then Bob titans Joe even though Joe was technically out of the illegal zone at that point.

IMO this shouldn't be added. The titan is one of the strongest weapons in the game and is balanced by the carrier having to explicitly engage it in most scenarios. 

Also:

> Shoot at medic ground unit in rebel

> Wait for him to fly off

> Kill his heli lul

58 minutes ago, Soap del Mar said:

If a player's personal aerial vehicle is stolen they may titan it without an engagement text.

It does feel kinda weird to have to engage someone taking your own vehicle when in this situation, but I don't think it should be added for the same reason as above.

 

[Montez 421]

15 minutes ago, Soap del Mar said:

 

It's like warning shots... the heli has to realize it. I cannot just sneak in with a suppressed 9mm and pop 1 shot. It's way more scuffed the way it currently is. It takes more time to lock on to a hummingbird than it does for a hummingbird to fly out of a small red zone (basically anything that isnt rebel). Not quite seeing how it would be abused. 

Not quite, do this today and you get banned.

How come?

1. "abused" was the wrong word to use, I meant more like its bull shit. I just don't see why you should be able to titan someone without saying anything bc you failed to rip them out at a drug dealer

2. on jah bro if I see a red name get into a white name's heli, that shit getting PIPED. im aiming for that red name dunno bout u

3. bc it would make it basically useless to steal helis, bc they could just titan you at any point, any where on the map, at any time. and it is literally the easiest thing in arma to titan someone who isn't expecting it

 

[Noahhh! 3605]

5 minutes ago, Zahzi said:

> Shoot at medic ground unit in rebel

Wouldn't the medic related rules still stop you from doing that or naw?

25 minutes ago, Soap del Mar said:

typically some shitty roleplayer like @Noahhh!

[Zahzi 3013]

1 minute ago, Noahhh! said:

Wouldn't the medic related rules still stop you from doing that or naw?

Quote

Medic GROUND UNITS (ONLY) are Kill-On-Sight at Cartels, War Zone, Rebels, and at active Federal Events (Jailbreak/Federal Reserve

 

[Noahhh! 3605]

Just now, Zahzi said:

 

yeah, would be kinda scuffed tbh. maybe soap's rule can be tweaked to stop that from happening?

[DubbedSoap 80]

Just now, Zahzi said:

This is already the case, confirmed it in the admin chat a couple months ago. Just be careful to not fuck it up.

Ok ^ That is dope.

 

As for the others, I understand finding a balance. 

Taking a look at your last comment on titaning your own heli if stolen... Why not? Any civ who hops in my heli shouldn't need a text before getting blasted. 

[AmericanWaffle 382]

1 hour ago, Montez said:

 

6. is the literal definition of "cross-fire"
 

That's not what crossfire is. Crossfire can really, only occur with controlled weapons (a gun). Suicide vests are an exception of course. But see it's not crossfire if you say hands up or die to someone in a panic room and then shoot an RPG in there. This is because an RPG basically guarantees the death of everyone in that room. While with a MK1, if you're shooting at a cop and a civ in that panic room, if the cop is behind the civ and you already engaged him, that is crossfire.

[UnAlpha 3]

1 hour ago, yung yayo said:

whos joe

joe mama

[Toretto 513]

Quote

1. If a player's personal aerial vehicle is stolen they may titan it without an engagement text.

I stole someones hummingbird back when I started on this server and was later killed by the guy I stole it from like 10 minutes later.  The admin ruled it "acceptable" because I stole his vehicle (after he was killed but revived).  So I feel it's acceptable to Titan your own vehicle if it is stolen as well.  You're losing the most in that situation anyways.

I agree with everyone else that suggestion #6 is no bueno.  The gang member in the aircraft vehicle could very well be AFK.  There is no reason to not message the pilot.

As for #2 I also think that could be easily abused.  It would ultimately create a gray area as already stated above that leaves it to the admins discretion.  As someone mentioned, shooting at someone with a suppressed 9mm and then taking out a Titan to finish the job.  Easy way to camp drug dealer and get away with all the money after. 

[Millennium 5561]

#7 already exists

[DubbedSoap 80]

7 minutes ago, Millennium said:

#7 already exists

Lets explicitly update our rulebook because there are multiple support team members and civilians who would disagree that it exists.

[Kamikaze 1178]

#5 & #6 Already exist

For #2 That would be abused heavily I think we should just leave it where its at.

As for #7 Im 99% sure its already that way, If it's not that way I wouldn't be opposed to it being that way sort of like how when an APD Ghosthawk engages an Ifrit and they swap drivers you're still hot on the Ifrit.

 

[DubbedSoap 80]

2 minutes ago, Kamikaze said:

#5 & #6 Already exist

For #2 That would be abused heavily I think we should just leave it where its at.

As for #7 Im 99% sure its already that way, If it's not that way I wouldn't be opposed to it being that way sort of like how when an APD Ghosthawk engages an Ifrit and they swap drivers you're still hot on the Ifrit.

 

Exactly, and thanks for the feedback. For everything that "already exists", what do you think about explicitly updating our rulebook that way the every day players and support teams know and don't have to stumble across rule clarification threads? Too many times have I gone to support per somebodys request after I titan them and it boils down to a lack of clarification. And a lack of support team's knowledge for that matter.

Just now, Soap del Mar said:

For #2 That would be abused heavily I think we should just leave it where its at.

Could you clarify exactly how that could be abused?

[Montez 421]

1 hour ago, AmericanWaffle said:

That's not what crossfire is. Crossfire can really, only occur with controlled weapons (a gun). Suicide vests are an exception of course. But see it's not crossfire if you say hands up or die to someone in a panic room and then shoot an RPG in there. This is because an RPG basically guarantees the death of everyone in that room. While with a MK1, if you're shooting at a cop and a civ in that panic room, if the cop is behind the civ and you already engaged him, that is crossfire.

I try and make enemy gang member go boom boom, u get to close to enemy gang member, u go boom boom too. call that shit crossfire homie

Edited April 20, 2020 by Montez

[DubbedSoap 80]

@Kamikaze  @Zahzi 

You both mentioned #2 being abused. What about this - If Joe shoots at Bob and then Joe hops in an aerial vehicle, Bob can titan Joe without a text. I think there should be an extension of "When a player is directly fired upon by an aerial vehicle, the player may return fire with a titan without sending a text first. " and I forgot to address this.

Very important imo, because when you got shot at then they try to flee in an aerial vehicle, why should I have to text them when we are engaged? They shot at me and then hopped in that heli.

[Kamikaze 1178]

3 minutes ago, Soap del Mar said:

Exactly, and thanks for the feedback. For everything that "already exists", what do you think about explicitly updating our rulebook that way the every day players and support teams know and don't have to stumble across rule clarification threads? Too many times have I gone to support per somebodys request after I titan them and it boils down to a lack of clarification. And a lack of support team's knowledge for that matter.

Could you clarify exactly how that could be abused?

I wouldn't be opposed to adding it to the rules but realistically everyone interprets the rules differently, as for support team not knowing shit like this L O L.

And for abuse it would go down like I just shot his Orca with a pdub now 2 minutes later I spot him again and he gets titaned. We are better off just leaving it how it is and you work around it with titaning while they are inside the redzone and continuing the engagement outside of it.

2 minutes ago, Soap del Mar said:

@Kamikaze  @Zahzi 

 "When a player is directly fired upon by an aerial vehicle, the player may return fire with a titan without sending a text first. " and I forgot to address this.

Very important imo, because when you got shot at then they try to flee in an aerial vehicle, why should I have to text them when we are engaged? They shot at me and then hopped in that heli.

Already is that way for example ghosthawk goes guns hot, you can titan w/o texting. As for someone that you are engaged with that tries to fly away its really not hard to have a copy paste "land or be titaned." or something along the lines of that.

[destruct 1355]

Don't need more rules... just use common sense. Writing a rule for every possible conceivable situation is not something we've done and not something we're going to do.

[CocoisDead 679]

5 hours ago, Soap del Mar said:

 

1. Titan engagement will engage the aerial vehicle itself. If a players send a text, to the pilot "Bob" of the black hummingbird, it does not matter if "Joe" takes controls or if "Bob" lands and "Joe" hops in the pilot seat. The aircraft is engaged.

This is already a thing.

[Dank MeeMoo 193]

Most of these are already a thing and if added to the rules I believe would only cause more confusion for new players as it’s just more things they need to memorize. Titans engage an entire vehicle so if you go off of that 7 can already be assumed. If an enemy gang member is in a vehicle your goal is to kill that person anyone else caught in that situation was just collateral, this doesn’t apply to only titans but any vehicle. 2 will lead to a lot of abuse and confusion imo, all you would have to do is shoot a single bullet at a vehicle that fly’s into a red zone and well after they’ve left they get randomly blown up.